Kyla Scanlon - A Finfluential Conversation
Kyla Scanlon stops by The Business Brew to discuss the life of a finance content creator. Kyla is a Gen Z financial content creator. Her content focuses on macro economics, monetary policy, crypto innovation, and more. She chooses to avoid stock discussions in an effort to avoid anything that could be deemed "pumping."
Bill wanted to speak with Kyla because he (a) is interested in how younger people are getting introduced to financial markets and (b) thinks she creates content the "right" way. Said differently, Bill appreciates how Kyla does what she does and wished more creators took the responsibility as seriously as she does.
The article referenced in this podcast can be found at https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-soci...
This episode is brought to you by Koyfin, one of the fastest-growing platforms for financial data and analytics to research stocks and understand market trends. Check out Koyfin.com to see what a Bloomberg-lite, with tons of high-quality fundamental data and a powerful graph engine looks like.
+ Transcript
Bill: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to The Business Brew. I'm your host, Bill Brewster. This episode is brought to you by Koyfin. Koyfin displays financial information simply and elegantly. Koyfin is one of the fastest growing platforms for financial data and analytics to research stocks and understand market trends. I discovered them thanks to their very passionate users, many of which are my friends. Imagine a Bloomberg-lite with tons of high-quality fundamental data, a powerful graph engine that can show it all clearly, and a user interface that doesn't look it was built in the 1990s. If you're an individual investor, research analyst, portfolio manager, or financial advisor, do yourself a favor and check them out. You won't regret it. Sign up for free at koyfin.com. That's K-O-Y-F-I-N dotcom.
This Monday episode of The Business Brew is exciting for me. It's a different tact from what we're normally doing. I'm going to drop some of these occasionally. You heard one with Seth Porges. This is Kyla Scanlon. She is a finfluencer, for lack of a better term. She may not like it, but I'm going to call her that. The reason that I wanted to do this episode is, I really like how Kyla does her content. I think that Kyla is somebody that is thoughtful, she is quick witted, she gets her content out quickly. So, she's on top of current events, and I think that she's somebody that is attempting to do the influencer economy around finance in the right way. I am interested in how younger people are going to get introduced to finance. I think we've all seen some of the TikTok investors. We've all seen some of the trading mentality that's permeating culture. My perception of Kyla is she's someone that's doing it the right way. She's interested in big topics, she's not pumping ideas. She's just out there trying to learn in public, and I wanted to have a discussion with her, because I think she brings a unique perspective that frankly, the typical listener base may not understand or be privy to. So, I hope that this episode gives some insight into what's going on in a part of the financial community, and I hope you all enjoy, and with that, let's get to the episode. Kyla, how you doing?
Kyla: I'm doing well. How are you?
Bill: I'm good. I'm excited to talk to you.
Kyla: Yeah.
Bill: I've been internet stalking you a little bit lately, but not in a weird way.
Kyla: [laughs] As long as it's not in a weird way. [laughs]
Bill: No, it’s not. For people that don't know who you are and what you do, do you mind giving a little bit of a background on what you-- you're a content creator that comments on the market, but I don't want to pigeonhole you as that because you got a lot of stuff going on. So, just how would you frame what you do?
Kyla: Yeah, no, know, it's a good question, and it's something I've been thinking about a lot lately. So, I think financial content creator is probably the best umbrella. So, I make TikToks, I make YouTube videos, I write a newsletter, I have my Twitter which I just post random ideas on. Then, I work full time right now in tech, and previously worked in asset management. But I would say, a financial content creator probably encompasses most of what I want to do. Educator, I think I'm of leaning towards that title, too. That's what I want people to think of my content as, as a different form of education. So, that's also something I've been leaning into.
Bill: When you say that you work full time in tech, what does that mean? Because to me, the amount of content that you put out as a full-time job?
Kyla: Well, it is. Yeah, [laughs] I do have two full time jobs right now or it feels that way sometimes. So, yes. I tend to work a lot, but I really enjoy the content. It's so fun and it's so rewarding too, and so fulfilling. It doesn't really feel like work. So, it's hobby. It's a very intensive hobby. [laughs]
Bill: Yeah, well, I can tell how much you love it because how much work goes into TikTok video? Because somebody consuming it can look at something that you do and it's “Oh, this is just 90 seconds. How long could that possibly take?” You seem to have a lot of work that goes into each 90-second snippet.
Kyla: Yeah. Hank Green, who's one of my favorite creators, he had this video talking about how you want to make the videos look they're not a lot of work. I'm still learning how to edit and still learning how to do all that, but I would say probably three hours of work, three to four hours minimum just into some of the videos between scripting, and editing, and I do different costumes. Yeah, it can definitely be a little bit of a lift for some of them.
Bill: I was checking out your YouTube channel and I like how your background was a bunch of stars, and the one that I was watching, and you were fielding. It was almost an Ask Me Anything on YouTube.
Kyla: Oh yeah, that was way early. So, that was back in March or April. I was still trying to find my footing as a content creator. So, was really, “Oh my gosh, who are these people watching me?” I did it an AMA on my TikTok Live, and I just had my audience come on and just asked me a bunch of different questions. I remember being so nervous too because at first, there was one guy in the room and I was, “Oh, my God, it's just going to be me and this guy.”
[laughter]
Bill: It was just going to be me and this creep.
[laughter]
Kyla: His name was Dr. Stonks and I was like, “Hey Dr. Stonks,” and then more people started to come in. But yeah, that's such a vivid memory for me because it was the first time that I'd ever gone live, the first time that I'd ever really felt a content creator, I guess, so, yeah.
Bill: When did you get the idea that you were going to be whatever the heck you and I do?
Kyla: Right.
Bill: I think you're much more visual. You're way more talented. I'm just some guy on a radio basically.
Kyla: No. Everything is art. I think that a lot of people, they're like, “Oh, I can't do this. I'm not talented. I don't have an artistic bone in my body,” and like, “Oh, my gosh, yes you can. Just put your pen to paper or just start talking and you'll get used to it.” So, I've been doing this since I was 18. I started a blog about options trading because I was in Kentucky, and I was like, “I don't know who else knows about this. So, might as well go online, and read about it, and bring other people through the process as I learned about it."
I started writing, and then all throughout college, would write equity research papers, tried to do a YouTube back then, but didn't really have the capacity to, and then started working in asset management at Capital Group, and had to put a pause on all that. Then just recently in December 2020ish, started doing the TikToks, and it wasn't until Aprilish where I was like, “Oh, this is actually something that--“ When Bloomberg started reaching out to me, I was like, “Okay, all right, this is surely something more than that maybe I thought it was,” which is awesome. It's so great to be able to do this.
Bill: Yeah, no, it's amazing. How do you think about the responsibility that comes with this? You said that you want to identify as an educator also, and I was reading in the Wall Street Journal this weekend there was this Finfluencer. There's so many [crosstalk] in the game. How do you think through that?
Kyla: Yeah, I saw that article. A lot of people sent me that article. It's really unfortunate because there's a lot of people on TikTok that are shilling out different crypto coins, different stocks, and pump and dumps. There's a ton, a ton, a ton of that on TikTok and Twitter, and just basically across the board. For me, I'm trying to be the opposite of that. I'm trying to be a place where people can go to actually get information. So, I'm very clear with my audience on TikTok, "I'm not going to tell you what stocks to buy. We're going to talk about monetary policy and why it affects you and other things that." I'm not going to be like, “You should buy this stock because it's going to go up 4,000%,” because that's so irresponsible and it's so unfair to--
Honestly, the industry and the people who are trying to get into the industry, there's already enough gatekeeping and enough barriers. These people who are shilling stuff make it even harder and even less accessible, and yeah, it's super frustrating. But for me, I try to really work against that and really be a place where people can come for hopefully quality content about a lot of different things.
Bill: I view the podcast is similar. I didn't traditional financial entertainment and education or there were certain things about it that bothered me and I was like, “Well, could I do a podcast that fulfills a niche that I want to hear?” But the bigger the reach for me, the scarier it is because I'm like, “Oh, my gosh, people actually think that I'm an authority all of a sudden," and that doesn't-- I don't know. It's a responsibility that's been interesting to wrestle with.
Kyla: Yeah, it seemed with me, I've been tagged as a knowledge leader, which I'm like, “Oh, my God.” And a couple of different things, I don't want that title. So, it is something that's a little tough because a lot of people end up either absorbing your opinion and turning it into their own, which can be hard. So, you have to be really conscientious and neutral about how you say things, and that's what I try to do in my TikToks.
I'm not going to be bitcoin is the best ever. That's not something I've ever going to do. It's more so this is what bitcoin does, and this is how you can think about it and incorporate it into your framework versus this is how you should think about everything all the time. I am very clear in the YouTube videos too, this is just my opinion, I think differently than you, and that's okay. So, yeah, there's a gray space there.
Bill: Yeah, for sure. I think one of the things that's tough, I was listening to you and Caitlyn Cook on podcasts that y'all did, and I think one of the things that's also tough is, by definition, we're in an attention business. So, there's this inherent tension between wanting to do the right thing, but also wanting to have people pay attention to what you're saying, and I don't know, it creates a lot of potential for people to exploit. But I don't know how different-- something that I've been thinking a lot about lately is like, “How different is this than what financial advice has always been?” I'm certain that the internet creates a level of scale and dynamic to it that's way different. But I'm not certain that the outcomes are any worse, if that makes sense.
Kyla: Yeah, it is. That's my beef with everything, too. I'm just like, “Okay, so. Especially, with the Finfluencer Wall Street Journal article, a lot of people are like, “Oh, my God, it's so irresponsible.” Like some of these people, “Yes, they are irresponsible.” I know that for a fact. But across the board, it's not bad for people to learn from social media as long as they're incorporating the right framework and saying like, “Okay, if these people--.”
You shouldn't listen fully to what anybody says unless they may be a scientist or it’s quantitative and you can prove it. You can't prove anything really in finance except for previous returns. So, I think everything is speculation and we tend to have a lot of guardrails as you know around who can speculate versus who can't. So, I think it's just shifting into a more decentralized speculation space, and people seem to have a lot of issues with that, because it's a little bit wild right now. The market has not calibrated to this newness.
Bill: Yeah, the thing that I also wonder is the talking about the market calibrating to the newness, the meme stocks and the speed at which information can get diffused, and how quickly something like-- I hate to use the GameStop example, because I'm not really sure what actually happened there. I know the institutions were really involved in that. But it is amazing how fast it seems as though these things can happen, whether or not my perception is true is something that I'm uncertain on if that makes any sense.
Kyla: Yeah, I feel the same, and I thought a lot about GameStop when it was happening, because I was still at my old job in asset management, and it just felt this was not supposed to happen, but it was also impossible to happen at the scale that it did happen with retail investors. Now, you just have-- People are still hanging on to that idea of, “Oh, GameStop is in this dark pool,” and “Oh, everything is-- it's a big conspiracy and the hedge funds are trying to squeeze us.”
There's such a disconnect between what these people are thinking and I think what's actually happening, and it's just really, Wall Street Bets just turned into this big conspiracy theory, essentially, where people are talking about GME, AMC, and all the hedge funds trying to short them out. It's like, what could have been done to prevent this. But maybe this is just how things are, human nature wants to speculate, and that's essentially what these people are doing.
Bill: You and I both started on tastytrade, some of our education in finance and I had a conversation with Tom Sosnoff, and he is of the view that all of this is good. The GameStop occurs, that is good, because it gets people interested in finance and you never know where that interest can lead. I think that one of the things that I've really been struggling with is the tension between my almost boomer self, and then even way more boomer self, where I hear Munger and Buffett talking to me, and saying this is all just bucket shop gambling-type stuff.
Then the idea of, well, maybe this does get a lot of people interested, and maybe they do tune into people like us and hopefully, we can help them find our perception of what the right answer is. I don't even know what right is. I just know what I believe. But it's been a very-- especially, given what I went through last year with Robinhood, I don't know, I feel very uneasy about all of this. But at the same time, coming back to what you said, I'm also uneasy about a ton of gatekeepers. Sometimes, there's not really an easy answer, right?
Kyla: Yeah, I think to Tom's point-- and yeah, tastytrade was my training grounds when I was figuring out what options were and what the market was. I think there's a better way to onboard people versus what GME was. Yeah, I think it's okay, because honestly, you've got a lot of people talking about the market, you've got a lot of people interested I had friends texting me, “What's going on? Is this what you do for your job? [crosstalk] Do you work at Citadel and that stuff?”
So, for me, I really struggle with the get rich, quick mindset that seems to permeate a lot of how people think about investing. It's like, “Oh, 1,000% returns or nothing,” and that's why a lot of people got into GameStop. It's because they were like, “Oh, I want 1,000% returns,” and then when GameStop started to crash, a lot of people got scared and got out of the market. I don't think it was as good as it could have been. I think it was good in terms of raising awareness, but I think net-net may be bad.
Bill: Yeah. We probably speak to different demographics. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that.
Kyla: [laughs]
Bill: Do you think that with your audience, if GameStop is going on, is there something in you that-- how do you fight the tension between not wanting to be the bearer of bad news, but also wanting to be really honest with what your thoughts are on a situation?
Kyla: I'm pretty honest.
Bill: Yeah. Just internally, how do you think through that? Have you just [crosstalk], I'm just going to do what I think is right, and that's my brand, and that's what I'm going to do?
Kyla: Yeah, I wrote a piece called Meme Stonks back when all of it was happening after I left Cap Group, and I just talked about how the market was really frothy, and that's what's going on. "This doesn't make sense, everybody, and it's okay, that it doesn't make sense. But you need to probably know that it doesn't make sense." I'm just straight up with them and I'm just like, “Hey, things are a little weird.” I talk a lot about tapering, I talk a lot about inflation, I talked a lot about monetary policy, and I'll let them know, “This is also a little weird, everybody.”
I think that when you have somebody be like, “Hey, this doesn't make sense to me, either,” that's cool and good. Because rather than institutions or somebody else maybe being like, “This is exactly why X, Y, and Z is happening.” It's like, “Hey, we're all in this together and being a little confused,” because everybody is confused. So, that's how I think about it. Here are my thoughts. So, I could be wrong, it could be the wrong way to do it, but that's how I think about it.
Bill: So, do you think of yourself as almost building in public in a way? I've said that about myself educating in public. I do not have answers necessarily. I just have thoughts and a desire to try to figure out answers, and I hope that people understand that that's where I'm coming from. Is that your approach as well?
Kyla: Oh, yeah, almost embarrassingly so from a building perspective, you can look at my old videos and see editing wise, how bad they were. It's just from even a formatting perspective, I've totally changed. I've been writing since I've been 18, so what is that? Five years. So, I've been writing online for five years, and if you go and look at my old stuff, it's just embarrassingly bad. I'm trying to explain the VIX and what the VIX means. So, for me, building a public is super important, because even though, sometimes feedback can be harsh from the audience, this was dumb, this is uninteresting, I don't how you explained it, it helps me. It helps me recalibrate to what they want, what is most helpful.
So, yeah, building in public, I think, is super important, and it's really vulnerable. People just don't talk about that how vulnerable it is to be a content creator, because every time I tweet out a video, most of my TikToks don't make it over to Twitter. But the ones that do, every time I tweet out a video, I'm like, “I'm so nervous." I'm afraid somebody is going to be like, “You're totally wrong, and you're the dumbest person ever.”
Bill: [laughs]
Kyla: Even if they do that, I'm like, “Okay, I can learn from that, I can calibrate,” I keep on using that word.
Bill: Yeah, that’s what it is.
Kyla: Yeah, just calibrating to the world because I don't have all the answers. I'm learning alongside my audience. Building in public is key.
Bill: All right. I'm going to ask you to put a pin in create a mental health, and then I'm going to circle back to a different question then we're going to go back. This is a Tim Ferriss' parkour.
Kyla: [laughs] Cool.
Bill: So, I wanted you to think about or maybe riff on, let me make sure that I plug the pod correctly. Let's Appreciate pod.
Kyla: Oh, okay.
Bill: I liked your first episode, collective belief is the new free cash flow. I think that it's interesting-- I really liked listening to you talk about just your general thoughts in that episode, but how you said that you used to really like valuation, and you still do, but there's this element that's going on outside of valuation that you're paying a lot of attention to and whatnot. That's an interesting dynamic that's going on in your mind.
Kyla: Yeah, I used to be hardcore DCFer [laughs] When I was portfolio manager at Cap Group, I was building out different models, and loved it, I was like, “This is so cool. Look at me doing all my inputs.” Then once I left Cap Group and started writing again, and it's like I don't think valuation is super helpful at least for my audience, and the ideas I want to get across. Right now, I'm more so leaning into ideation. I still love valuation, post them on Twitter, and when they post about valuation, I love it, because it's super interesting.
But for me, I think the ideation and the framework process is a lot more valuable to people versus being like this is potentially what this company could trade at. And 50% of the time, I'm going to be wrong, because it's super hard to tap that. So, yeah, that's how and I think also the market is pretty detached from fundamentals, both in terms of how easy the Fed has been with policy, and then in terms of how these companies are trading, the multiples that they're trading at, there has to be some compression eventually, and I don't know what that'll be. I don't know anything else more than anybody else around that. So, I don't think that evaluation is my competency. So, I just am like, “I'm just not going to do it anymore to an extent.”
Bill: Do you think that your audience thinks that the market is detached from reality, or fundamentals, or whatever?
Kyla: Yeah, I think most people do that, at least in my general circle, just because when you look at the economy, “the economy's recovering,” we still have a massive labor shortage, we have massive supply chain issues, and yet the stock market keeps on ticking up. Even when Afghanistan, the bombing happened last week, the market was just not even really paying attention. It just keeps on going. It's fine, I guess. I can't fault it.
But yeah, I think the market is to an extent detached from fundamentals. A lot of companies are trading at, like I said, these multiples that don't really make sense, but maybe they do make sense. Maybe this is just the new normal. I think that's hard to wrap your head around too, is maybe this all makes sense, but it doesn't make sense.
Bill: Yeah.
Kyla: Yeah. Super intuitive. [laughs]
Bill: No. I actually think that is a very, very good way to summarize what I think about what's going on, is that it makes sense, but it doesn't make any sense. I guess that it's just so heavily reduced my faith of being able to forecast anything precisely. It's just like I have no idea what's going to happen. None. Don't know. There could be another pandemic next year. Who the hell knows?
Kyla: Yeah.
Bill: If 2020 taught me anything, it's that I don't know what might come, and I have no idea what the policy response will be, and I have no idea how people-- I don't know if you've seen but do you follow retail sales?
Kyla: Yeah.
Bill: They've exploded, like exploded. I'm not just talking about on a-- Yeah. If you had told me we're going to have a global pandemic and the US consumer would come out in incredibly great shape, I'd be like, “This makes no sense.” But it does make sense.
Kyla: Yeah, but there's no way-- Yeah, you could have never put that into your valuation framework.
Bill: Yeah, right. Or, ahead of time projected that, it wouldn't have been within my realm of competence.
Kyla: I don't think anybody could have predicted that.
Bill: Yeah.
Kyla: That's the weird thing about the markets. It's just like we're trying to predict the unpredictable essentially. There's value to that. I think somebody needs to have these guardrails in place for stocks in companies. But at the end of the day, you can't hang your hat on it and be like, “Yeah, I was 100% correct,” because the probability of that is super, super low.
Bill: Yeah. So, now, you spend a lot of time on crypto and NFTs, if I'm not mistaken. Is that fair?
Kyla: Yeah, it's super fair.
Bill: So, what do you see going on there?
Kyla: Yeah. I’m super interested.
Bill: I know this is a super broad question. But if you can narrow it down for my audience, who I assume does not spend as much time on it as you do.
Kyla: Yeah, I've written about it quite a bit. The Substacks always turn into YouTubes. So, I've written a lot about the ownership economy, which I think is what's going on here. We're trying to own the online. Crypto is the way that people are thinking about that. So, moving into this Web 3.0 economy into this world where stuff is digital, how do you own in a digital space, and we've never really owned the online space. It's always been owned by platforms, like Twitter owns the IP, Instagram owns the IP. So, this is the way where people are trying to become owners of what they do online.
NFTs right now, I think the reason that they're so wacky is there's FOMO. People want to get involved because they see other people doing it. There's feedback loops. If you see people making millions and millions of dollars, you're like, “I too would love to make millions of dollars. Let me join.” So, I think it's a lot of that stuff where people are just trying to get in on the action, and the market is calibrating to that. Everybody's like, “Money laundering.” Sure. Yeah, there's probably money laundering going on. That's everything, that's traditional finance too.
Bill: Yeah. I don't know how different that is from traditional art.
Kyla: Yeah, it's not. But people use that as an excuse. When I made a video about NFTs for TikTok, probably every other comment was like, "They're just money laundering." I'm like, “Sure, okay.” But it's about a message. It's like people are trying to figure out what's going on and through that, there's going to be euphoria.
Bill: Yeah. How do you think through whether or not-- I guess, the question that I'm really trying to ask is a hype cycle question. Because I think, I have noticed myself really pissed off that I don't have a Bored Ape. I don't that. But then I don't want to go get the Pudgy Penguin, because I don't want a penguin dammit, I want an ape. But then I'm like, “I don't have enough money to get an ape.”
I have noticed that, at first, I disregarded this trend. Now, I'm like, “No, this is definitely real. I just don't know how real it is." So, it reminds me of some of these cycles that have a bunch of hype, and then we'll probably have a crash period, and that's when you really want to know what's going on to pick up some of the pieces, that's how my mind has framed it. How do you predict the future, Kyla, which I'm sure you can't do?
Kyla: Yeah. No, if I could, my life would probably be a little different.
Bill: [laughs]
Kyla: No, I think this happens in crypto a lot. You had DeFi summer. This happened in NFTs a little bit back in 2017 with CryptoKitties. The market will shake out what doesn't make sense and right now, NFTs don't make a whole lot of sense to a certain extent. There are rocks selling for $3 million, and I think a lot of it has to do with crypto funds. So, a lot of VC arms are getting into crypto, and they're going to throw money at stuff, because they can because that's just the market environment for private markets right now. Also, you have crypto billionaires. So, a lot of very, very rich people in crypto may not know what to do with their crypto money. So, they're going to throw it at a rock, because if you have this rock, and you can show it on your platform, and put it as your profile picture on Twitter, everybody knows that you're a rock, everybody knows that you're Pudgy Penguin, everybody knows that you are Bored Ape. So, there's this community aspect to it to where it's like, “I get to be a part of the Bored Ape community, I get to show everybody that I did this, that I'm there that I'm with it.” So, I think it's a lot of that stuff too. It's really interesting.
So, ever since the Industrial Revolution, we've been a really individualistic society. We've always operated in the mind of the individual, because that's what you do as a factory worker. Ever since then, leaning into the knowledge economy, it's just become very, very siloed. But I think crypto is turning that on its head where it's more so focused on community and we don't really know what that means. So, we're trying to figure that out too like, “Okay, why would I pay money for this thing?" but it's really access. It's really access into the Bored Ape club and it's a very fancy Digital Country Club, which 2 PM wrote a really good piece on. It's this Digital Country Club that you're paying access to.
Bill: Yeah, I like that. I realize that we may even need to take a step back and frame this even more basic. So, an NFT for people that don't know is a non-fungible token. Bored Ape Yacht Club is basically, it's a group of, I guess, creators that are artists that have released a number of apes and they look bored, and they have eyeballs on them, and stuff that. You can only own one digital copy of it. I guess that the biggest pushback that I've ever heard is, I have a Bored Ape on my phone. I just snapped a picture on the internet, it looks as good as the NFT that somebody actually owns. But I wouldn't dare use that as my profile picture on Twitter. Because, one, it would violate a code that I'm not trying to violate and, two, a swarm of people would probably go nuts on me for the right reasons.
It's interesting that I feel a social responsibility to honor someone else's contract, because I know it's an NFT so I won't coopt that picture. That's odd to me, but it's also real. There's a lot of interesting dynamics interpersonally that are going on within the online community and NFTs are one of those things.
Kyla: Yeah, it's a social code. You know that, people. You know, it's not cool to do that. I think a lot of people do. Somebody tweeted out last night, "I stole this $5.3 million rock," I think it was a picture of NFT and they tweeted out in a bunch of people in the comments were just dragging this person and they're like, “No, this is not what that means.” Because when you have an NFT, the ownership is verified by the blockchain. So, you have the picture, but really when an NFT is the pointer to the asset, it's this narrative behind the asset. It's not always asset themselves. So, you can download the picture, sure, but you don't own it, the person who owns the pointer to the asset does, and that's only verified on the blockchain. So, if you don't have access to that, it doesn't matter. You can download, copy it, print it, paste it all over town, but it's not yours.
Bill: Yeah, and I know people that say, “Well, who cares that it's not yours.” But the fact of the matter is some people really care.
Kyla: Yeah, well, sure. It's the same with getting prints of the Mona Lisa. You can't go to a guy in the pawn shop, and show him the prints and be like, “Hey, I'm going to sell this to you. It's the original Mona Lisa,” because obviously, it's not verified. You don't have ownership over that. It's the same thing just in the digital space. You can't just try and sell a copy of a JPEG on open sea, because people are going to be like, “Where's the verification?” and you won't have it. I think a lot of people just struggle with the concept of it and it's tough. It's tough to like, “Why are these JPEGs, these PNGs, these pictures selling for millions and millions of dollars, because it's something that we've never really faced before.” I think that's the big issue is like, “What does this mean?”
Bill: Yeah, I think it's interesting that, I think a lot of the people who are poo-pooing NFTs are the same types of people, that poo-poo a lot of new trends. I guess I understand why they're doing it. But I also think that they're not paying attention to how big this is. How much time and how many inbounds do you get about NFTs? How much time do you spend on it?
Kyla: Oh, man, I spent a lot of time on it this past week just because I was more curious about it than anything. Usually, just with my work, I'm just like, “What do I want to learn about?” Then, I just share my process with people. I get a lot of pings around different NFT projects asking me if I want to be a part of it. I get a lot of people pinging me their ideas for NFT projects. I read a lot about different NFT projects. So, this past week, I would say I probably spent 25 hours just reading about them, trying to learn more, talking to people who are building in the space. Because I'm not a builder. I'm just more of a curator of information. So, I really want to make sure I'm getting the right stories out there for people.
Bill: Yeah. I know, I keep going back to this pressure question, but I want to go back to the mental health thing of being a creator. What's the hardest thing about being always on? Because that's what I perceive you to be, and I know that I feel that at times too. It's like I feel I'm always doing a little bit of performance art, which is odd to say out loud, but it is true.
Kyla: Yeah, it can just be a little tiring. You have to remain consistent across all the different platforms. For me, I put on a persona when I make my videos. I'm not that outgoing really. I'm an introvert. So, a lot of people think I'm extroverted. I think the toughest part for me is just managing all the different platforms that I'm on, and dealing with different questions, really lucky to have different requests for videos. But all of that does add up, and I think a lot of people don't realize this is a one-person team. I'm doing everything from HR, to editing, to ideation, to processing, everything. So, I think it's a little bit tough with that, is people expect a lot from you all the time and sometimes you can't deliver.
I actually had to take a step back on TikTok because I was making a video every single day, and it was a market update, or as a skit, or something. I had to take a step back from the market updates, because I was just like can't deliver on this in the way that I want to, to the audience in the best way possible. So, I ended up stepping back and it felt okay. But you're always thinking about it too. You're always like, “Oh, I got to edit this, oh, I got to write that,” and it's great. I love it, but I'm always doing something. There's never any downtime, because there can't be. Because you always have to be producing. Because if you don't produce, people might forget about you. If people forget about you, it's over. So, I think that's the worst part.
Also, you said earlier, you're subject to the opinions of people. So, if you fall out a favor, game over. That's really scary too. That's scary. The public is scary. So, I think that's the worst part.
Bill: Let me ask you something. Do you honestly think it would be over if people just stopped paying attention to you as a creator?
Kyla: No. For me, creator is not going to be my forever everything. I have a lot of ideas that I want to work on around financial education building products in the space. So, for me, it’s just something fun. If I'm helping people, that's good. But I do think there's this internal pressure that I put on myself as a perfectionist to really be on for people all the time. So, people get bored of me, which is inevitable that that will probably happen at some point, hopefully, not soon. But yeah, you just have to know it might happen.
Bill: I don't know. I don't know that people are going to get bored of you.
Kyla: [laughs] Thank you.
Bill: I happened to think you’re quite talented at what you do.
Kyla: I appreciate that.
Bill: I think that you bring-- It's a very fresh and, and very -- What you do is very hard to do. I can't recall off the top of my head right now. When I DMed you, it was a TikTok video about NFTs, and there was-- what's the amendment that was proposed for bitcoin or something? It was very big-- [crosstalk]
Kyla: Oh, the infrastructure bill?
Bill: Yeah. What was going on with that?
Kyla: Oh, the infrastructure bill, it was basically a pay for. So, what they just threw in that big infrastructure bill that's being passed under Biden, one of the senators threw in this crypto pay for. So, they were going to tax crypto people, but they were going to tax everybody as a broker. So, tax individuals, tax everybody under a brokerage, but you can't do that, because you're not registered as a broker. You can't meet that demand. So, it was very, very clear that the people who were making this amendment in the infrastructure bill had no idea how crypto works. And yet, they were still making policy around it. So, it turned into this really big thing where somebody proposed to Biden-- I forgot their names. To me, I think was one of them, but a couple of more people proposed another amendment to the bill, and it went back and forth, and then, of course, because of politics, that ended up going through under the original amendment, so it was just really messy.
I think legislation brings validation to this space. But it also made it really clear that a lot of legislation has not been developed around crypto. I think that is something that a lot of people are going to have to think about, and a lot of the big crypto companies aren't thinking about it and developing lobbyists. But it was very apparent that they had no idea what they were doing, and that's not good, and they're going to have to know what they're doing. Once they figure out what they're doing, there's going to be a lot more, how do you say it, guardrails in place, I think.
Bill: Yeah. Watching the interviews of the big tech companies, I'm not sure Congress knows what they're doing with big tech and they've had a long time to figure it out. So, I'm not optimistic about crypto, but we'll see where they all come out.
Kyla: No, I got--
Bill: Which is to say I'm not optimistic on them becoming informed enough to have reasonable regulations. That's the actual thought that I have.
Kyla: I agree with you. Yeah, that's a whole different conversation about politics. [laughs]
Bill: I mean it moves so fast.
Kyla: It does.
Bill: Thinking that they're going to move equally as fast as -- They can't. They're just going to be left behind.
Kyla: Yeah. I have a lot of friends who are full time in crypto space, and I try and get updates from them on what's going on, because personally, I'm trying to keep tabs on the stock market, the crypto market, and policy. So, I tend to lean on them and they're just like, "It's going at the speed of frigging light." So, yeah, the space is phenomenally fast.
Bill: Yeah. All right. I want to go back to this mental health thing. How do you manage your dopamine intake?
Kyla: Oh, my God. That's something I thought about a lot because I love clicking on that little bell on Twitter and being like, “Oh, what are people saying? Do people like it?” Yeah, I'm pretty bad about it. I checked Twitter, don't click on the bell if I'm on Twitter, and until the end of my Twitter time, I managed it that way. Yeah, that way they can respond. So, I go on Twitter to learn which I know sounds silly, but I go in there and I follow people.
Bill: It’s how I learned most of what I know, is through Twitter actually.
Kyla: Same. Yeah, there's some amazing, amazing thinkers on there. I just read usually, the links to different articles I’ll read. So, that's how I structure my Twitter time, and then at the very end, it's time for me to respond to people who are talking at me. Then, same with TikTok. I’ll watch my TikToks and then I'll respond to everybody at the end of my TikTokk time. So, I do try and segment my TikTok time. I sound like I'm talking to a baby. It's my Twitter time, my TikTok time. So, that's how I tend to structure it in segments.
Bill: Well, I think the thing that I have had difficulty with and it could be a generational thing, but one of the things that's hard is you're putting your content on to something that is inherently addictive and maybe inherently is a little bit too big of a word, but I don't think the big tech is not addictive. So, okay, all of a sudden, I put out something on Twitter, how do I not get sucked into the Twitterverse? You're on TikTok, which is insanely addictive. So, there's an element of having to go right into the fire in order to even get your content distributed. So, I would think it's very difficult.
Kyla: Yeah, and also for me and the videos that I make, I have to stay up to date on what people are talking about on Twitter too. So, I can't always go with this learner first mindset. I also have to be digging around and being like, “Okay, this is what people are saying about this. This is what people are saying about that.” Then TikTok, TikTok is just so goofy. Because the algorithm figures you out so fast. It shows you what you like. Absurd humor is my favorite thing. So, it'll be jalapenos dancing to a Pitbull song and that'll be my for you page and I love that stuff.
Bill: Seems pretty funny.
Kyla: That’s so funny.
Bill: I get it.
Kyla: It's great, but you can laugh, and then you can scroll along, but I've tried to design my page to be a little bit more substantial. But you can tell, my content has gotten probably more absurd over time. People sometimes comment, “Are you on drugs?” That sort thing. So, you can tell that I do get influenced by TikTok. Yeah, I try to use everything as a tool to make my stuff better and learn from it I learn a lot from other content creators on TikTok on like, “What makes sense? How do you structure these videos to piece the algorithm?" and same with Twitter. If people are talking about a certain thing, I'm like, “Okay, that'll go my pick that up Twitter's algorithm isn't as powerful TikToks,” but yeah, that's how I think about it.
Bill: Hmm. I should probably try to tailor my stuff a little more to the algo. But I just do my own thing, which is why I'm not as good at this as you are.
Kyla: [laughs] No, at the end of the day, you just want to have fun. I would say I do my own thing mostly, but it does tilt towards what other people tend to be also thinking about.
Bill: Yeah. Well, the reason that I ask is, you strike me as someone who's independent. You said you came from Kentucky, and that you had an interest that was not neces-- It doesn't sound like where you're from was a super into finance, generally. You started writing on the internet in order to find other people that had similar interests. Then, you find yourself in the middle of a whirlwind of how do I talk about what other people are talking about, and I really like valuation, I like models, but also that's not really what I do. It just seems you have a lot of potential tensions in your life from what you do as a business standpoint to what you maybe as an independent introvert might spend a different amount of time on. I don't know. So, managing that must be a chore.
Kyla: Yeah, I don’t know. For me, the videos, I love my newsletter. My newsletter is probably the favorite thing I do. Then with the TikToks, it's a very creative outlet. [crosstalk]
Bill: Where people should sign up for your newsletter while we're talking about it?
Kyla: Yeah, it's kyla.substack.com. So, sign up there. If somebody was like, “Oh, it's self-titled newsletter. Somebody thinks really highly of themselves," and I was like, “I just didn't know what else to call it.”
Bill: [laughs]
Kyla: I'm not trying to flex. [laughs] Silly. That's another thing people will comment the first thing that comes to their mind on the videos, and yeah, one guy was like, “Oh, my God, your vocal fry is making my brain fry,” and I was like, “ha, ha, ha.” It's super funny dealing with some of the comments. One guy was like, “Now that you're smiling less, I can watch your videos more. You reminded me of the Joker.” I was like, “What?” [laughs]
Bill: It seems rude.
Kyla: [laughs]
Bill: I think you have a nice smile, for what it's worth.
Kyla: [laughs] Thank you. -
Bill: You don't remind me of a serial killer when you smile.
Kyla: Well, yeah, that was the worst part. I was like the Joker? Oh, my God.
Bill: Yeah, that's hard stuff.
Kyla: Yeah. Well, it will not can get into your head speaking to the mental health point. You're like, “Oh, maybe. Wow. Should I be smiling less? Wow, is it really entitled of me to name my newsletter after myself? Do I have vocal fry?" which I do a little bit because I'm a young 20s female and that's just how what you do?”
Bill: What is vocal fry?
Kyla: I don't know, actually. I don't think I have it but apparently, I do. It's just apparently, you drop your voice to a lower barometer than what you're supposed to be speaking it. It's Paris Hilton, Kim Kardashian, that [crosstalk]
Bill: Ah, fuck this guy.
Kyla: Yeah, [crosstalk]
Bill: If you listen and you're my fan, stop listening. I don't want you as a fan.
Kyla: [laughs] Yeah. I know that's the thing too. You can choose the content you consume and if you don't like my content, you don't have to consume it. But speaking to the mental health point, those comments can be a little hard to wade through sometimes, especially if you're having a bad day, and you go on TikTok, and somebody's comparing you to the Joker, you're just like, “All right, time to log off.”
Bill: Yeah.
Kyla: You have to know when to log off.
Bill: Yeah. Has it ever impacted your sleep? Just the whole job and always being on?
Kyla: Time management has been a little tough for me recently. So, I haven't been sleeping probably as much as I should be. I also struggle with sleeping a lot. So, yeah.
Bill: What's that look like?
Kyla: I'm trying to optimize. I wake up really early, and putter around a lot, and work on different things with having a full-time job that is relatively demanding. It was just tough to squeeze in the content, squeeze in the editing. Now, I've got it down to more of a science, but when I was still trying to figure it out how to make content, it would take me a long time to make a video. Especially if I'm working with brands, and they have a certain deadline, and I also have my full-time job, it just made it tough from a management perspective.
Bill: Yeah. I ask, I went through it for a while. I was waking up at 1:30 or 2:00 at night, and it was almost a ritual that I go reach for my phone, and then I was like, “What the hell is going on with me? I've trained myself a dog to be addicted to this phone. That's insane." But it was real.
Kyla: Yeah. No, same. I usually wake up sometimes around 4:00. That's usually when I wake up, and the first thing I do is check the phone. Usually, my emails are first, and then I'll start editing a video. So, yeah, I'm right there with you.
Bill: Yeah, it's wild. I don't know.
Kyla: I think we are trained by Pavlov for sure.
Bill: Yeah. What do you think it does to people's investment horizons? Well, I guess a better way and a less leading way to frame it would be, does it do anything to people's investment horizons? When we're always at a screen, it feels and people are-- I don't know. At least, my perception of what I have gotten myself involved in, and I'm curious whether or not you feel the same, is all day long, people are just arguing about ideas and I happen to walk into an arena that they're doing it in, and sometimes I'm , “Why am I walking into this and does this actually help my behavior, or does it get me all short-term focused?” I'm not sure what the answer is, because on one hand, Twitter has objectively made me smarter. On the other, there may be a lot of ways it's making me dumber, and I'm not sure about it.
Kyla: Yeah, I know. Same. Sometimes, if there's a Twitter beef going on, I'm like, “Yeah, what's going on here?”
[laughter]
Kyla: Yeah. We tend to seek that stuff out, and then to the point of short term-- yeah, and that's something I think about a lot too. It's just to get-rich-quick mindset that I think permeates a lot of us. It's like, “Well, I don't have five years to hold on to this stock. I want my money now.” We're used to that. We have instant gratification all throughout our society. So, the concept especially with crypto, when you put crypto and then stocks next to one another, it's crypto, I can make a 10,000% return or more, why would I hold on to my stock that might give me a dividend of $1?
Yeah, I think it's tough. I think it's really tough to-- Also, humans are pretty bad about thinking in long-term perspectives. We operate in the short-term most of the time. So, I do think that's part of the problem and then with Twitter, everybody-- With Twitter, it's just so many ideas all the time and so, you can get FOMO also and I think that doesn't help. One person, you could read one second, buy the stock, read another second, sell the stock. There's so many opinions on the platform and that can be tough to parse through.
Bill: Is it a stretch to say that younger people are more interested in the options and crypto than they've ever been? Do you think that would be an accurate thing to say?
Kyla: Maybe. I was doing options when I was 18, there was nobody who I knew that was also doing that. Now, there's a ton of 18-year-olds, 15-year-olds in crypto and doing options. So, I think maybe [unintelligible 00:48:42], yes. Also, Robinhood, there's a lot more accessibility to the stuff than there used to be. Robinhood makes it so you can download and get an account and you can start trading. That really reduces the barriers. So, I think maybe it's not even interest, but accessibility and information has become more accessible.
Bill: Yeah. The other thing that Tom Sosnoff had said to me that I thought jarred my brain, I wasn't ready to hear it. But after thinking on it, I understand what he was saying, because he's a market maker by trade. He said people don't trade stocks anymore. They're too expensive. I didn't understand what he meant and then he said if a stock is $600, that's capital inefficient, and I still didn't get it, and then I was like, “Oh, if you view everything is inventory, then the amount of capital that goes into your inventory, it's so obvious that it would be capital inefficient.” But I don't view stocks as inventory. I view them as ownership interest in businesses. So, it's really what's the price relative to the earnings. But I wonder how much of what's going on in Robinhood and options and crypto is just people moving inventory. How many people are just trading?
Kyla: Yeah. No, the inventory, that's a really interesting idea. I think that's what's going on. People are like, “I have a set amount of dollars,” and getting away from the valuation frameworks. It's more so like, "I have a certain amount of money and I need to allocate it across the board here and I don't have time to just spend it on a stock." So, yeah, I would say that's probably a pretty accurate representation.
Bill: Yeah. Where do you view your brand going over time? Do you think you're going to stay more in the macro thing, do you think that you want to--? I know you said you want to build out financial content and stuff, but just what's your passion?
Kyla: Everything. It's cool, because I get to explore for everything. I really love private markets. I love startups. I want to tell-- So, the way that I started thinking about myself and I don't know if it makes sense but a librarian and a historian almost. With crypto, I want to chronicle what's happening in crypto through my videos. That's my goal with crypto, is to piece by piece talk about the space. So, I'll make a video on NFTs and explaining what they are, and then I'll make another video on NFTs couple months later, and I think capturing the sentiment there will be cool and also through my writing, having these broader ideas and that's why I've shifted towards broader ideas. Number one, it's more fun. Then number two, because I love philosophy, I get to look at everything through my philosophy lens. So, being a crypto historian, a crypto librarian.
Then, also with the broad market just doing analysis around it and trying to break down concepts to my audience, and to people who read some of these bigger ideas and how they can incorporate it or that sort of stuff. So, I want to stay broad. I think it's really fun to stay broad and just be chatting about everything with everybody and also telling stories of startups in financial education or the creator economy, two things that I'm really passionate about, and helping them get the word out. Yeah, that's what I want to do.
Bill: What do you think's going to go on with the creator economy? I can't see it slowing down on one hand, but on the other hand, there's a lot of people out there that must be right on the verge of quitting, because it's really, really tough. I think something that you said that really makes sense is like, “None of us know how each other is priced,” and you start talking to somebody and you're like, “Oh, well, how did you price that? Oh, that sucks. I didn't get that," whatever. It's going to be interesting to see how that evolves, and how-- We've got to figure out a way to have our data set so that we can fight back against the people that have data on us.
Kyla: Yeah. I think there's a couple of points there. Okay, number one would be these brands that are creating tools for creators, and then number two would be pay transparency. So, working backwards, the pay transparency we just talked about, there's a couple of platforms that are FU pay me. I think another one that are becoming the glass door for creators. So, that way, there's more bargaining power with brands, because right now, it's the Wild West out there. I've gotten on a couple of calls, and given my pricing structure, and people have been like, “Oh, my God, you're so cheap.” And I'm like, “What?” [crosstalk] Then, what would you-- Yeah, and then like, “Don't raise it for me, but raise it moving forward.” I'm like, “Oh, this sucks.”
[laughter]
Kyla: So, definitely, pricing is super hard. Then, you'll have some creators that are price out the wazoo and brands will pay it. So, it's really odd. I think also the negotiation, I hate talking about pricing with brands, I'm just like, “I don't do this for free." That's tough. Then also, with the broader creator economy, I do think there's a little bit of euphoria going on here. So, you have a lot of brands that are building in the space, and they're not talking to creators. I'll get on a call with a brand that's like, “Oh, do you want to use our product?” I'm like, “Have you interviewed any creators around this product? Is this something that people have asked for?”
Bill: [laughs]
Kyla: They're like, “No, no. We just want to build--.” They've raised $3 million or something like some crazy amount of money. People are just funneling money. If you say the word 'creator,' people are like, “Yeah, I want a piece of that.” Then the product is terrible. It's just a belief. So, I think there's a lot of room for creator-owned products moving forward, because people who are not creators, it's tough to make a product for creators if you have not talked to creators. I know it sounds crazy, but that's how it is. Yeah, you have to probably talk to creators if you want to make a product for them.
Bill: That's right. I know that I'm a stan for Twitter, but I've gotten to talk to their product team, and I hope that I'm giving them value in doing so. Something that just came out, I don't know, are you up to speed on super follows or do you know what they're trying to do there?
Kyla: I know a little bit, yeah.
Bill: Yeah, this idea of a super follower badge, if I send out a tweet and I have super followers-- for people that don't know. Super followers have a private feed on Twitter. It's Twitter Plus, think of. Then as the creator, I would have that feed that I run, and then I have a public feed. On the public feed, they're saying that my super followers, when they reply, would have a little badge that says like, “I super follow this guy.” I don't think I like that. I think that should not be the default at least. I think a user should have the ability to turn that on and off because I don't want to create some weird dynamic within my [crosstalk] or somebody who's like, “Oh, that's so dumb. You super follow Kyla, why would you do that?" Then, people are like-- It just seems peacocking in a way that I don't really need to get involved in. Buy an NFT, folks.
Bill: Yeah. No, I agree. [laughs] If it's available, I haven't opted into it. I wouldn't want that. It's an interesting concept, and it'd be a good alternative to Patreon. I don't have a Patreon, but it'd be a good alternative to that, I think, for people who do have large Twitter audiences, and you're like, “Okay, I've gathered all these--.” Twitter's my most powerful platform by far in terms of just engagement.
Bill: More so than TikTok?
Kyla: Mm-hmm. I'm actually kind of small for TikTok. Oh, yeah.
Bill: Ah, that's not right. People, help her out.
Kyla: [laughs] No. I’m a finance content creator. It doesn't get great for us.
Bill: Yeah, it’s not as sexy [crosstalk] to be fair for the algorithm.
Kyla: Oh, I’m not that interested in so [laughs]. Yeah, it’s okay. I do want to get bigger and working on it, but also I speak to intermediate investors more so than beginner investors. So, I make my town smaller than it should be probably. Then also, that algorithm is just nuts. But yeah, with Twitter, it would be cool to do that, but I don't want people underneath my tweets being like, “I super follow you," or feeling weird that they have that badge next to their name, and then not wanting to talk to me at all. That wouldn't be cool.
Bill: That's what I think too, or have some dynamic where-- I don't know. I would feel like if I saw the badge that I had to, I don't know, either respond to them, and then that could come at the expense of other people, and the whole idea is to not do that. So, what my feedback to Twitter was, I just said like, “Look, let people turn it on and off. As far as super followers go, I'm already going to have a private conversation for them. So, they're going to get more engagement anyway.” I don't understand why it's got to be so public. So, we'll see. What I'm saying I think goes to your point on talking to the actual creators, and what I will give credit to Twitter for is they've changed a lot of things not because of me, but as I've seen people give them feedback, this whole building in public is helpful, I think.
Kyla: Yeah. I know they've definitely been figuring it out for a bit, and they do seem like they're moving a little bit faster, like Spaces seems it has been really good for a lot of people.
Bill: Did you use Space [crosstalk]?
Kyla: I don't know. No. Hmm-hmm. I don’t. I’ve been on a couple.
Bill: Do you view yourself, you're more visual than audio, yeah?
Kyla: Yeah, and I don't have that many interesting things to say every day. I'd rather just package it all up real nice, and then get it out to you. I don't want to be there every day just chattering. But I know why people do it, and they're really interesting to listen to you. But for me, I need a little bit of a break from just being on, on, on, on.
Bill: Yeah, I would think so.
Kyla: [crosstalk]
Bill: I've got to ask you this and if it sucks, we'll just cut it. But what's it to be a woman and be out there? Do you get harassed at all or are people fairly well behaved?
Kyla: Yeah. That's the reason I wouldn't want super followers. A private feed does not sound like it'd be fun for me.
Bill: Huh. That's sucks.
Kyla: No, I mean it's not that bad. It's really not, but I do get some weird DMs. The thing I struggle with is, it's super silly, but it's like are they listening to me, because me, are they listening to me because I'm a woman or they're not listening to me because I'm a woman? I don't know. So, I think you just think about it a little bit more. And you do have some weirdos who are in your DMs every day just developing a parasocial relationship, which can be a little scary but on the aggregate, I don't--
Bill: Can you define parasocial just so I understand exactly what you're saying?
Kyla: They think that they know you, because-- the thing with my videos and being on Twitter, which is a primarily text-based platform, a lot of people have seen my face, and they've seen my reactions, and they've seen how I talk. So, they think that they know me a lot better than I know anybody else. I haven't seen a lot of people even talking. I've never seen them talk, I've never seen their face. I've only ever seen their profile picture. But for me, because I'm so in everybody's face with my videos, and my expressions, and how I act as a person, it's so personal. It’s like watch a video of somebody doing these things that I do. So, a parasocial relationship is like, “Oh, I know her, she knows me, and we're friends.” But I have no idea who they are and I don't plan on knowing them probably. So, it creates a weird dynamic and a lot of creators really struggle with that.
Even for me, the YouTube videos that I watched, I really Cody Ko, who's a YouTube commentary person. I probably think that I know him to a certain extent, but he has no idea. He has no idea who I am. So, it's just that weirdness, like you know a lot about them, you know their life, but they don't know anything about you.
Bill: Yeah, I think that's right, and as an introvert, I would think that doesn't help, right?
Kyla: I'm able to filter it out and just be like, “Oh, you know.” I had one person that did threaten to stalk me and that was a little [crosstalk]-
Bill: That’s weird.
Kyla: -get out of here. So, I blocked.
[laughter]
Bill: Who? I don't like you. I mean, not that the-- Yeah, no, we're going to say we don't that person. That's fine. That’s fine in terminology.
Kyla: Yeah. So, that was probably the worst experience. But other than that, I would say on aggregate, people are so supportive, people are so nice. I get a lot of really nice DMs being like, “I love your content, you're super good. Don't stop.” When you get a DM like that, where somebody’s like, “Do not stop making content,” that feels really good. So, I would rather-- for every bad DM I get, if I get 10 good DMs, that okay.
Bill: Yeah. Well, I'll tell you what, I think Jason Buck is a cool dude. I like Corey Hoffstein a lot. Me, Corey, and Jason have all commented about your stuff in ways that we all really appreciate what you do, and we think that you've got a real talent.
Kyla: Thank you.
Bill: So, to the extent that you like any of the three of us, you have our full-blown endorsement. If you don't any of the three of us, I can't help you. I don't know what to tell you.
Kyla: No. Corey is an OG. Corey--
Bill: Yeah, he is the man.
Kyla: Yeah. He followed me back when I was still in college. So, he's like--
Bill: Oh, really?
Kyla: Mm-hmm. So, we've known-- or I've known about him, I guess, and he's followed my work for a little bit, which is cool. It's cool to have people on the journey, like Nick Maggiulli has been a day one person that might go [unintelligible [01:02:10]. Those guys have just been there when I was back at 989 followers on Twitter. Now, it's 56k. Yeah, so it's cool. Yeah, it's awesome.
Bill: How fast did that blow up?
Kyla: I was less than thousand back in January, and now, it's 56k.
Bill: Wow.
Kyla: Yeah. So, it's just cool.
Bill: That’s dope.
Kyla: Yeah, that many people vibe, that they like my stuff. It's so nice. The support underneath the videos is always really cool, and being able to connect with people who I've never thought I'd connect with like Matt Levine and other people like that, it's just been really nice. So, Twitter is really powerful for that.
Bill: I will tell you, to the extent that you want me to because it came up, you said like, “Would they be listening to me if I wasn't a woman?" I think that the answer is unanswerable. I probably would be less inclined to have a random 23-year-old guy on the podcast, because frankly, I think guys have enough spotlight in finance as it is. But if I didn't think your content was dope, I wouldn't have you on the pod. I think you are really, really talented at what you do. I think that you're at a really interesting point where you're talking to people that are learning about finance, and I respect a lot how you do what you do, and I hope that there are more people out there that are like you, because I think that the younger generation is going to continue to turn to people like you and yourself, obviously. I think we need more people that view the world you do, because I think it's going to be increasingly, I'd say, important over time. So, that's why you're here and I hope that's why people are enjoying the conversation. I don't think it's because you're just woman or something else.
Kyla: Yeah, she's a girl. No, I don't.
[laughter]
Kyla: Let me listen to her.
Bill: Well, shit. I've got to listen. She is a girl.
Kyla: [laughs] I don't think so either. Yeah, for my audience, a lot of them are around my age. Being 23, 24, 22, it's just super weird, because you're like, “What's an adult, am I that?” And you're trying to calibrate and figure it all out. So, I started posting a little bit of adulting content on Twitter, and just get-- [crosstalk]
Bill: Define adulting content. Let me know what this was.
Kyla: No, I just went through the worst move ever. I moved from one side of LA to the other, and everything that could have gone wrong did go wrong. Yeah, I just talked about it. Also, for me, leaving asset management, because I thought I was going to be in asset management forever. I thought it was going to be in Cap Group my entire life. It's a great company. But for me, I was like, “I can't do this. I can't be here forever.” So, it was a huge cognitive dissonance between like what I thought I wanted and what ended up happening. So, I made a TikTok talk about that just being like, “Hey, it's okay if you're uncertain,” because a lot of people, nobody really knows what they're doing. So, I think that content helps the audience too, because with the markets and with the economy and all that stuff, it really-- when it boils down to, it is the 'I' individual that you have to look at the end of the day, you sort of worry about, which is you, you're the 'I' individual. So, yeah, you're a part of the economy, so, it makes sense to make content about you, that individual.
Bill: So, what happened to Cap Group that you said, "I want to go a different direction"? I don't mean that it was something that what happened there. Maybe it was just you wanted to pursue this passion, but what made you make the choice? Because it's pretty quick that you made the choice.
Kyla: Yeah. So, like the pandemic sort of was like an eye opener, where you like, “Ooh.” What do I really care about? For me, it's financial education. That's what I'm here to do for at least a little while. It's like educate people. For Cap Group, it was great, awesome job, learned a lot. But that wasn't in the cards and how things were looking to shape out. For me, I struggle with rules a little bit. I like to do what I want to do, and I want to do it. When you're at a corporation, you're working for them and you should be. You're there for them, they're paying you, you should do what they say. But for me, I'm like, “No, I want to do this idea right now. I don't want to do my work, I want to do this idea. I want to build something, I want to try something else, I want to talk to different people, and I want to share my ideas online.”
When you're an institution, you can't really do that because of compliance. So, I was like, “Okay, I'm just going to take a leap, go into tech, I wanted to do tech, make sense to try tech, why not?” So, that's how I thought about it. It wasn't anything that Cap Group did. It was just me being a little bit too [makes cat sounds] all the time. So, yeah.
Bill: Well, I don't know that a bit.
Kyla: [laughs]
Bill: I don't know that we need to frame it that way. I do think that it's true that once you get into a big organization. If you've got a little bit of more of an artistic bend or an entrepreneurial bend, it can be tough to-- You're not really there to be that person. You're there to be their person. You do strike me as your own person.
Kyla: Yeah. So, I just didn't really-- Yeah, it just wasn't the best creative environment for me. Great company, but yeah, I just needed to strike it out and figure it out, and I did. My parents are super supportive of that stuff too. They're like, “Okay, you'll figure it out, we think.” So, yeah, that helps a lot.
Bill: How big is the town you're from? You don't need to name the town or anything that, but I'm just curious.
Kyla: I'm from outside of Louisville. So, Louisville itself is around 600k. So, pretty big. But the little town that I'm from, it might be 50 to 70k outside of it, Middletown.
Bill: So, how many people that you grew up with are in big cities now?
Kyla: Five, maybe.
Bill: Wow.
Kyla: Yeah, you don't really--
Bill: That's wild. Do you mind telling people why you sound like you're from Canada?
Kyla: [laughs] Yeah, it's actually interesting. I cover my accent. That's why.
Bill: Yeah. Yeah.
Bill: So, how thick is your accent when you're at home?
Kyla: All right. I've covering it for a long time. So, I do speak this all the time now. When I am just around my friends, and I'm not presenting per se, it can get pretty thick. But this is an affectation that I've developed, because I felt the Kentucky accent sounded silly, which is so unfair. If I could go back, I wouldn't have done that. But that was why. So, it got super thick, but definitely dropped the Gs. [giggles]
Bill: Yeah. Well, I think in general, the southern accent-- Look, if you're going to pitch financial content, I'm not sure that pitching it with a southern accent is the best idea in the world.
Kyla: Yeah, there's a lot of stereotypes, which really is unfortunate.
Bill: Yeah, it is unfortunate. But you know, you are selling a packaged product and part of the package is how it sounds. So, it makes some sense. But maybe over time, you'll let the drawl back out.
Kyla: If you listen to my YouTube videos, especially the newer ones, it does drop off quite a bit, because I just started to get into the-- It's just me talking to myself in an empty room. So, you just sort of let it loose a little bit. It'd be crazy. So, that ends up happening.
Bill: I got a kick out of a couple of YouTubes. But I like how excited you seem when the questions come in, and then, you do a really good job editing, and then the one thing that you said that stuck with me as you were like, "It seems crazy, but it'll go on until it can’t," or whatever.
Kyla: [laughs]
Bill: [crosstalk] Yes. That's exactly what I think, too. It'll go until it stops. I don't know what to tell you. Yeah, that's cool.
Kyla: In one of my recent TikToks, I said it doesn't matter about the thing. It matters how the thing is thinking, and that seemed to really stick with people too. [laughs]
Bill: [laughs]
Kyla: Because it makes sense. Well, it's not about the thing, it's how the thing is thinking. This'll keep on going until it doesn't. It's sort of that package advice.
Bill: Yeah. Well, I don't know. I'm very interested in how the younger generation is getting, and I’d like hate to be the guy talking about the young uns', but that's what I become, and I'm really interested to see how it all develops, and I hope that over time, the idea of getting rich fast subsides and that, like something that you had talked about, and I think it's that first episode of your pod where you were like, that American dream of working and saving, and I almost think that you said that it was gone for the younger generation, or changed, or something like that. I hope that one, I'm misquoting you, and I hope, two, if I'm not misquoting you that change-- I don't know, I hope more faith gets instituted in financial markets, because otherwise we could be in for a problem.
Kyla: You're not misquoting me. I said that. Yeah. I was speaking to the white picket fence house, retire at 65. I think a lot of us know that's just not something that is accessible to us, because of the structure of the world that we live in. Yeah, that's what I was speaking to. I think that the get rich--
Bill: I’m going to stop you real quick.
Kyla: Yeah.
Bill: Okay, because I do care about how people talk to themselves. When you say, we know that it's not available to us, I hope that you're removing yourself from us. Because I guarantee you with your talent, you're going to be able to get wherever you want to go and I think that you need to know that.
Kyla: Well, thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah, the reason I say 'us' is because I consider myself a member of my audience. [laughs]
Bill: I know. I just want to make sure that there’s nothing in your brain that needs to hear that.
Kyla: No, no. It's always good to hear validation. [laughs] So, I do appreciate that. Yeah. I just think on aggregate, a lot of people my age know-- or maybe think they might not be they know that this like, what our parents had and what our grandparents had especially, just isn't as it is attainable as it used to be.
Bill: Yeah, I'll tell you the thing that's going to be tough is-- at least our parents general-- Well, my parents’ generation, Jesus, fuck, I'm getting old. They had a lot less competition, just generally. But the quality of life does continue to get better and better and better over time. So, hopefully, there's some answers here. Maybe the cost of living comes down. Something that has always blown my mind. I think Airbnb and Uber really framed it well, but why do so many older people have a second home? I can just rent a second home. I don't need to own that shit and worry about the roof leaking, and all the crap that comes along with ownership. The rental economy, I think, could maybe increase people's quality of life without all the costs.
Kyla: Yeah. No, I think the older generation probably thinks real estate is, as you know, an asset and investment. The more homes you have, the more you can flex. Now, everybody's going to be flexing in the metaverse. So, it's a little bit different but yeah, I know. It's odd. For me, I’m like, I don't really want a own home because I've no idea where I'll be living and honestly, it doesn't make sense even try and buy one, because I'm on the go. I'm trying to figure stuff out. Like you said, I don't need to be worried about how the roof is leaking. I've seen a place to sleep.
Kyla: My two cents is, do your own thing and rent while you're doing your own thing. Because paying a realtor sucks. It's a very real cost. What are your thoughts on the metaverse? Where are we going? Everybody's talking about the metaverse these days. You're a big Roblox fan, correct?
Kyla: Yes, I am.
Bill: Are you engaged on Roblox? Do you create for Roblox in any way shape or form, play it or just the idea?
Kyla: I love the idea, yeah. I'm not on the platform just because I don't have time to build stuff. Unfortunately, I don't make the time I should say. I did a deep dive on them. That was my first piece. When I left Cap Group, I did a deep dive on Roblox, and it was really in the context of like, “how to video games become--?” Because video games I think are always a leading indicator of where the world is going. So, video games have had NFTs for a long time, the digital endgame skins are basically NFT's. Also, the metaverse, this VRAR stuff right now exists in video games. So, that's going to apply to the broader world.
The metaverse is this virtual reality becoming “physical”, so we're able to engage. Instead of us being on the Zoom call right now, we'd be in the same metaverse room and we'd be in-- [crosstalk] that sort of that stuff. Digital coffee shop is how I like to describe it to people. So, Roblox is probably going to execute on that moving forward because they already have developers, they already have the user base, they're aging up their user base very quickly, and then games like Fortnite are really good example, is moving in that direction too. So, I'm excited.
For me, I worry about the complications of the metaverse in terms of how we think about our actual physical reality, because I think there's still so much that we have to do in terms of cleaning up planet Earth that we can't just hop into the metaverse right away. I'm not saying that we'll forget about Earth and I don't think we can, but there's just other things that we have to worry about too.
Bill: Yeah, well, until we're all Ready Player One and on a treadmill and stuff that, you've still got to take care of your physical body too.
Kyla: Exactly. Yeah, exactly.
Bill: But it is interesting how much more-- It does seem an inevitable trend that more of our physical life moves online and more of online starts to permeate the physical life and the meld is, I think, what people are referring to as the metaverse-
Kyla: Yeah.
Bill: -before we all go full blown matrix.
Kyla: Yeah. I know. I think about it a lot. I think one of the things that it's hard is we've never experienced this stuff, so it's hard to actually envision how it works. Marshall McLuhan, who's one of my favorite philosophers, basically has this quote where it's like, “A fish can't perceive that it's in water, because it's always been in water.” So, I think that's hard for us to think about how we exist in a different “reality,” because we've always been in this “reality.” So, what does it actually look to be in the metaverse? I don't think anybody really knows what that'll be. But we can learn a lot from science fiction. To your point about Ready Player One, they've already thought about that a lot.
Bill: Yeah, I hope, it's a little less dystopian than that, but whatever.
Kyla: Maybe. Who knows?
[laughter]
Kyla: I have no idea. Right now, it's a whole commentary on the state of the world which can be viewed positively or negatively, I think, depending on where you stand-- [crosstalk]
Bill: What's your view? Are you an optimistic person or a slightly pessimistic person by nature?
Kyla: I'm a cynic. Yeah, that makes me, I think, a decent investor. I tend to operate very like the conscious up, I guess. I would say, I'm pretty optimistic on the state of humanity. Technology, I think, is great. I think there's a lot of people building stuff that's going to help us. Especially moving to LA, I just become very aware that there's people who are not nice out there and you just have to operate with that in mind.
Bill: Yeah. Well, I hope that the nice people find you.
Kyla: Yeah.
Bill: I'm going to ask you if there's anything else you want to talk about, but I'm down to stay as long as you want, or I'm down to end it. Either way, I want you to know that to the extent that I or anyone in my network can help you, let me know. Because I do think you've got a cool thing going on.
Kyla: Yeah, and thank you. I'm actually taking some time to really think about media and content and education. So, if anybody has any ideas and wants to chat about how they think financial education should be shaped, that's going to be at the forefront of my personal-- how do you say it, personal creed of conduct moving forward. So, happy to chat with anybody who also is thinking about it. I'd love too, actually.
Bill: All right, cool. Well, that's the ask, folks. Reach out to Kyla if you got any ideas for and tune into her content. It's great stuff.
Kyla: Yeah, [crosstalk]
Bill: So, thank you so much for a-- [crosstalk] What is it? Is it Stan with Kyla? Is that what I click on your Twitter profile that gets to see to all of your stuff?
Kyla: Yeah, the stan with me, yeah.
Bill: Stan with me.
Kyla: Yea-h. If you just go to @kylascan on Twitter, if you go to standwith.me/kylascan, that's all my stuff. But I'm super active on Twitter. I check my DMs. I can't say I'll respond right away. I do have a little bit of a lag time, but I do see them. So, I will respond eventually, sometimes. Yeah. [laughs]
Bill: All right, well, thank you very much for your time.
Kyla: Of course.
