Alexandra Blumenfeld - Red Rover Founder
Alexandra Blumenfeld stops by The Business Brew to discuss her business, Red Rover. Alex is a Junior at Vanderbuilt University and founded Red Rover, an expert network. Bill, Josh Tarasoff, Trey Kuppin, and Elliot Turner have all used Alex's service and all recommend the service. This conversation will highlight the value Alex provides. See show notes below for details of the conversation.
Red Rover Website: redrovernetwork.com
Red Rover Twitter Page: https://twitter.com/RedRoverNetwork.
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+ Transcript
Bill: This particular episode is brought to you by myself, Elliot Turner, Josh Tarasoff, and Trey Kuppin. This episode features a young woman named Alex Blumenfeld, and she is somebody who I think is a very unique individual. She is 20 years old, she's at Vanderbilt University, she has founded a research service that sends surveys to college students, Gen Z. I believe that she says in this episode that it covers 150 colleges now. And if you are interested in how people are interacting with an app, or I was interested in whether or not her peers were open to the idea of nicotine pouches versus being completely closed off to nicotine, or how they perceived nicotine pouches relative to cigarettes. So, we sent out the survey and I got the results back.
What I can tell you is when I talked to Trey about Alex, he said, "There's a strong chance we're all going to be working for one day," and I've never recommended her to anybody who hasn't enjoyed talking to her. I separately talked to Elliot and Josh about her. Both of them have used the service, both of them speak very highly of her, and I hope that you listen to this episode, and it resonates, and I hope that you understand, potentially, why reaching out to her and using her service makes sense. I don't want to "the price" that I paid for my survey, because I don't know what her actual list price are and whether or not I paid it, so, I'm just going to say I'm super happy with what I did with her, I'm super happy with the results, and I was happy with the amount that it cost. I thought it was very reasonable. Rather than rambling, I'm going to let y'all listen. I would just, again, really encourage you to reach out to her. Red Rover is the name of her company. I'm going to drop her contact information in the show notes and I hope you all enjoy the episode. With that out of the way, so, Alex, how you doing today?
Alexandra: I am doing very well. How are you, Bill?
Bill: I am excited. I am on my second podcast recording of the day and--
Alexandra: How's it going?
Bill: Yeah. Well, I've decided to wet my palate with a little bit of wine and I look forward to speaking to you.
Alexandra: Wonderful. Same here.
Bill: So, people are going to say, who is Alex Blumenfeld and I'm going to say to them, someone that comes highly recommended by Elliot Turner, Josh Tarasoff, and Trey Kuppin. If you know those three people, then I think that that should be hook enough. If you don't know those people, we will provide quality entertainment and people can figure out why down the road. So, Alex, do you want to tell people a little bit about yourself?
Alexandra: Sure. So, I am a junior Vanderbilt currently studying HOD, which is Human and Organizational Development, and I'm also the founder of a survey company called Red Rover. This all started because I was interning at a concentrated long-only fund this past summer called Greenbrier partners, and I was conducting some qualitative anecdotal research for them. Part of what I was doing that seemed most valuable to them was conducting some surveys on the side where I was just asking my friends what they thought of certain products and services that Gen Z, which is my generation use a lot. My boss and the portfolio manager, Trey and Chad were really shocked at, "Hey, how quickly the results were coming back from these little polls that I was running?" And the kids were really excited to answer them, and they weren't even getting paid. So, that was how this started.
Bill: It's a good business, Alex.
Alexandra: [laughs]
Bill: Getting content and not paying for content is a good business.
Alexandra: Yeah.
Bill: And charging a lot for a survey.
Alexandra: [laughs]
Bill: Not that you do. I'm just saying that would be a good business.
Alexandra: It would be if I could find more people that didn't want to be paid. But unfortunately, once you get out past your close friends, they do want a few cents.
Bill: That stinks.
Alexandra: [laughs]
Bill: Have you considered paying in Busch Light?
Alexandra: [laughs] You know, we talked about Busch Light and pizza as an alternative to Venmos. But it turns out Venmos are a little bit more motivating. But maybe, we'll do a combo in the future.
Bill: Yeah. I think as long as you're focused on the college crowd, Busch Light and pizza should always be in your back pocket.
Alexandra: [laughs] They're common place here on campuses.
Bill: Indeed. Well, I lived some of that common place almost two decades ago, which is sad to say out loud, but it's also true. For people that may not know, I have used Alex, well, not Alex, but Red Rover, and we did a survey on tobacco. So, well, nicotine pouches specifically, is what our survey was on. But do you have a specialty?
Alexandra: I would say the value that we bring is this expertise that Gen Z has in the tech and the consumer space, because Gen Z is the first generation that are truly considered tech natives. So, we actually are the first generation to have grown up with technology. These are the kids that grew up using iPhones and iPads when they were toddlers, when they were in middle school. Because of that they have a very unique perspective on a lot of the tech companies that are publicly traded today. Part of that expertise means that they're very picky, so if you can get this demographic right, then you can get a lot of other demographics right.
But it also just means that these are the primary users for a lot of these companies and their opinions are really valuable for that reason. But on the consumer side, this generation is soon to be the largest generation of consumers. Right now, they make up 40% of the consumption in the US and they're only growing. So, as they get older, and get jobs, and become more successful, and have means to spend money, they will continue to grow. But that's why people are really interested in what they have to say when it comes to consumer brands and also tech companies.
Bill: Yeah, that makes sense. Do you mind talking a little bit about the context in which how Red Rover started, and what Trey was looking to accomplish? Because I know he looks at the world through sort of a win-win-win lens. I'm just kind of curious to hear you talk a little bit about your experience at Greenbrier and also how your service added value to them and spawned into wherever it's going to go in the future.
Alexandra: Totally. Well, so, we really just started out doing a few small surveys with a few girls in my sorority. Actually, we had a group chat with about 50 kids in my sorority. They said, "I want to know if these kids know what an app called ZIN. It's not the nicotine patch, ironically, but it was an app that was similar to TikTok, but they paid you. I said, "I've never heard of it, but I'll run a survey just with my friends and see if anybody else has heard of it." The results came back unsurprisingly that no one had heard of or use the app. But Trey was curious about it, because I think it was close to number one most downloaded on the App Store that week and he thought, "Oh, maybe this is the next big TikTok. Sure enough, within about two weeks, it was off of the top charts list and never to be seen again.
But I think that is when he first recognized the value in asking the consumers of these products if they use them and why they don't. But I was able to write a report as sort of a member of this target demographic saying, why it probably wouldn't work and why I thought people didn't use it, and he found that insight really valuable. So, that is how the idea for this first got started and he started to refer to me as the spy into the newest generation of consumers.
Bill: [laughs]
Alexandra: The spying evolved into collecting responses from a broader group of friends. He walked by my desk one day and said jokingly, "You can make a business out of this." The light kind of went off in the back of my mind. I've always been pretty entrepreneurial. I started a little art camp in lower school, and then I had a marshmallow business in middle school, and I had some drop shipping businesses in high school.
Bill: What your marshmallow business do?
Alexandra: I made gourmet marshmallows. I was allergic, is still am to everything. So, the idea was that marshmallows really only contain gelatin and sugar. So, I could consume them as good anyone else with lots of allergy.
Bill: How is that different than Jell-O?
Alexandra: Well, the texture is different and-- [crosstalk]
Bill: Yeah. So, you figured out a fluffy Jell-O?
Alexandra: [laughs] That's fair to say.
Bill: I don't understand that, because I'm not allergic to anything. I just put everything in my body and then my body gets bloated, and maybe that's the problem.
Alexandra: [laughs] Maybe that's the problem. You should be focusing on just gelatin and sugar, maybe you'll be a little less bloated.
Bill: Yeah, clearly.
Alexandra: You whip it together with cornstarch.
Bill: Yeah.
Alexandra: It's a whole process.
Bill: Huh? That's interesting. How much did you sell these marshmallows for?
Alexandra: Oh, gosh, I think they were $7 for a little pack of three of them that were wrapped up in these little plastic sleeves. But I missed the date for the farmers market, which I needed to submit my form to go to it, and I thought I'd submitted it and I hadn't. So, we ended up just running a stand in my front yard and ran the business online for a few months. But I was devastated when after the business sort of winded down. My dad didn't really love the sound of the mixers going in the kitchen all the time. [laughs]
Bill: I can understand that.
Alexandra: They were quite loud. Yeah. So, after the business sort of winded down, I was devastated to go to Whole Foods and see something called Smash Mallow, which is literally my idea that it worked.
Bill: Well, that's a good lesson in entrepreneurship.
Alexandra: Yes, it is. It motivates you to go and find something else that you think might work and put in the effort to make it happen.
Bill: Yeah. Okay. So, what was the after the marshmallows, would you do?
Alexandra: So, post-marshmallows was some e-commerce drop shipping experimentation. I created this LLC called Trendies Company, which is essentially just an umbrella company for all these different ventures I was running. And I created a bunch of Google and Facebook ads for about 60 different products and tried to use targeted advertising to find the right customer for these products. But it's a little bit harder than you would think. [laughs]
Bill: What were some of the products?
Alexandra: One site was at homefitness. So, this was during the pandemic, it was actually while I was interning at Greenbrier, I was still doing a little bit of this. But I figured that there were lots of people at home that needed at home workout supplies. So, I was selling a little bit of that, and I was selling some. You know what a Theragun is?
Bill: No, should I?
Alexandra: You should, actually. If you're ever sore having muscle issues, it's a handheld device that pummels you until your soreness goes away.
Bill: Oh, yeah. I think, it was either Fed Speaker Alfaholic. I think FedSpeak on the Twitter machine was talking about this thing. He said, "It changed his life."
Alexandra: [giggles] Yeah, people love them. They really are supposed to help, but I was selling a Chinese version of that to American consumers, and they weren't loving it because it was pretty close to the same price as Theragun, but it wasn't a real Theragun. You live and you learn.
Bill: Yeah, brand matters.
Alexandra: It does, it does.
Alexandra: Did it work what you were selling or were you just hocking junk?
Alexandra: No, it worked.
Bill: Okay.
Alexandra: It didn't have the same brand name. So, it didn't have the same appeal, I don't think.
Bill: I understand that. It's like trying to sell a Athleta versus Lululemon. It's just a little different.
Alexandra: [laughs] It is. It certainly is.
Bill: Okay. So, you've always had this entrepreneurial bent, you go to Greenbrier, Trey's asking for surveys and the lightbulb goes off.
Alexandra: Yes.
Bill: So, not only the way he tells the story is you came back within two days with a business plan and said to him, "What do you think of this," and he gave full encouragement for you to pursue the plan? Is that an accurate representation?
Alexandra: It's pretty close to that. After he left my desk that day, I reached out to 10 friends from high school and I said, "Hey, would you guys be interested in answering surveys if you got paid for them?" They all said, "Yeah," I mean as long as it's easy and it's in a third-party app, it's already on my phone. I was like, "Okay." So, since all 10 of them said yes, I decided that I was going to make this promotional video. So, I went on Upwork, and I hired this guy from, I believe, Pakistan to make this promotional video, but I drew out all the different scenes, and described them to him, and thought that I've been really clear, but he made a video about a poll, happens to also be a poll on a boat, and the video [laughs] ended up being about boats.
Bill: [laughs]
Alexandra: So, we had to scrape the slate clean and start over with a different guy but--
Bill: Oh, that's funny.
Alexandra: It's pretty funny.
Bill: Did you have to pay that person or did you say--
Alexandra: I did.
Bill: Oh, that's very nice of you.
Alexandra: Well, you know, it was services that-- He technically did provide a creation of a video. It just wasn't the video I had asked for.
Bill: One would argue there wasn't a meeting of the minds there. Therefore, no contract. But who knows?
Alexandra: [laughs] Yes. But eventually, we did get the video made and I showed it to Trey and said, "What do you think?" He said, "This is pretty exciting." So, I sent a video to those 10 friends who'd initially said, "Yes, I'm down for this," and said, "Hey, can you just send this to a few friends from your college that you go to?" Within a week, I had 200 people in the group chat, within two weeks, I had 300 people in the group chat, within three weeks, I had 500 people in the group chat from 70 different schools and universities around the country.
Bill: Wow.
Alexandra: At that point, I thought to myself, "Okay, this could really be something," because it really did. It just went viral.
Bill: Where is your group chat?
Alexandra: A group chat is within GroupMe, actually.
Bill: Oh, what are you using? Are using Slack or Discord or what? Is it just on your iPhone, you have 700 people?
Alexandra: Yeah.
Bill: Oy vey, that's a lot of things to keep up with. Okay.
Alexandra: Yes, it definitely is. But they're all within one group and we've figured out. I have this really awesome coder from Stanford, who I've been working with to create this software that allows us to use that third-party app in a way that is unique and custom to what we need it for, so, we can collect the data from there, and it spits out PDFs and demographic information in a way that is useful to us.
Bill: So, the third-party app, what is that? Is that the Red Rover app?
Alexandra: So, that's GroupMe.
Bill: Okay.
Alexandra: We've created software that works with GroupMe to control our little herd of voters, monitor them, and send them these surveys, and then collect the results of these surveys, and print out little PDFs reporting back all of the results that come out of them.
Bill: When I asked you to do a survey, I was interested in whether or not your generation was open to nicotine pouches, because I am interested in whether or not, Altria can pivot and how Swedish match is going to compete and whatnot. I'm looking at a 399-page PDF, and I've got data on home state, I've got data on political leaning, I've got data on gender, age, I mean, it's very impressive how detailed all this is.
Alexandra: Thank you. What we do is, when people join the group chat, we have a process by which we message them and collect all of this information from a survey, and then the information from that survey goes into a Google Sheet, which, this code that Aiden, our coder has built polls from when it's analyzing the data within GroupMe. So, we use GroupMe's API to see what the answers were.
Then this code goes back into this public Google Sheet, well public to the code, but not public to everyone, and finds the demographic information for each respondent, and compiles it, and aligns it with the way that people have answered the poll. So, you get the answers to the poll, and then after that, who everyone was that answered that poll, and who everyone was that answered a specific answer within that poll.
Bill: Yeah. Do you as a sampling-- so you go to Vanderbilt? You said 70 different schools are represented, is that as of now or is that as of when you were building it?
Alexandra: That was when we were first building it. Yeah. It's a little bit bigger now. It's about 150 schools.
Bill: Wow.
Alexandra: Which is very exciting, yes.
Bill: That is exciting.
Alexandra: All 50 states are represented now, which is great.
Bill: What I'm getting at is, how do you or if you don't now, that's fine, as long as people understand what's going on. Are you trying to get past some sampling bias like? So, when I snapshotted some of the results to the survey that we had a response to me on Twitter was, I suspect these people probably skew high income and I forget what state he had mentioned. I'll note, it looks like 13% are from Dallas or whatever on at least one question-- or that's actually the demographic breakdown it appears. So, there's some geographic concentration in a way, I guess, right?
Alexandra: Yes. Well, so the concentration in Texas is a natural outpouring of just me being from Texas, and a lot of the first people that joined were Texans. But yes, you're right. It initially spread through college campuses. So, this is an educated group of kids were biased towards college educated or at least high school educated kids. We are on a major kick to diversify our polling base beyond campuses and universities right now, and also into the states where we need a little bit more concentration. So, California is one of those, and I believe Oregon is another one.
But the goal here is really to provide a representative sample. But the question comes back to you, representative is relative to the question that you're asking. So, today, we have bias from the perspective of someone wondering about Gen Z as a whole, since these are predominantly college kids, as you said, it has implications about income and education. But I wonder how many of our clients are just interested in the population we do represent, which is these individuals with higher purchasing power, these more influential kids. Right now, we answer that question.
Bill: I bet a bunch.
Alexandra: Probably. But right now, we answer that question better and over time, we will develop the ability to answer more general questions because that really is the goal.
Bill: Yeah, or to your point, leaning into what you have, having some sort of insight into the next generation of, I hate to say it this way, but it's somewhat true, higher educated, likely higher income earning individuals is, I got to think a pretty interesting demographic to have insight into.
Alexandra: Certainly. And that is the value that we bring right now. But for people who do want that broader Gen Z demo, that's where our expansion plans come into play for sure.
Bill: Yeah. So, let me ask it a different way just sort of as a tactic. I think, it would be a tactic, not a strategy. Maybe its strategy. I don't know, whatever. How do you think about leaning into what you have versus building something for everybody? Because I can make an argument that really leaning into this niche is pretty smart idea.
Alexandra: It really comes back to what our clients want. The company is built around trying to provide value to the hedge fund community, and eventually, hopefully, to it and even broader community. But right now, just to fund. So, if this is something that our clients are interested in-- more interested in, then the broader demographic, then we would certainly lean into that through the outreach programs that we have started with colleges. It's definitely easier to reach out through colleges and high schools than it is to try and go to your local convenience store and find someone who is not enrolled in college and interested in joining the chat. But it would stem from the desires of the consumers.
Bill: Yeah, that makes sense. What are some examples of some surveys that you've run?
Alexandra: Oh, gosh.
Bill: You don't have to use like who you ran it for, but I know you've done one on wine consumption.
Alexandra: Yeah.
Bill: I know, you've done one on nicotine patch consumption, I know you've done one on ZYN, not the nicotine pouch-
Alexandra: [laughs]
Bill: -consumption. But people are listening to this, and they're thinking, "Boy, that could be an interesting thing to add to my process." What do you think to date your core competencies are and where have you had experience running surveys?
Alexandra: Totally. Well, some of our most popular categories are streaming services, payment processors, just generally speaking, food delivery apps, Zoom versus Teams' questions and social media. Those are probably the largest categories of interest. Recently, actually alcohol, which you've mentioned. But a really-- [crosstalk]
Bill: Huh? What about booze? What do people want, just on wine?
Alexandra: Actually, about alcohol in general we ran, I think it was last week, we ran one. And it was really interesting that about 50% of the kids prefer hard liquor over any. They say, mixed drinks are like their most popular drink-
Bill: I knew it.
Alexandra: -which is really interesting. I thought, it was going to be seltzer, but only about 25% of them favored seltzer and 18% for beer.
Bill: Beer's in a tough spot. Have you done any for weed?
Alexandra: We haven't actually. That can be your-- You're next.
Bill: Oh, I'm going to run one. 100%.
Alexandra: [laughs]
Bill: 100%. Yeah. I'd be really interested. We might have to have a yearly weed one, because I have a theory on the adoption curve of marijuana, and I think it's just going to go higher and higher and higher. The hard liquor I think is interesting because we live in this world where I think a lot of people like to say, "Oh, well, health and wellness is this trend." I actually think there's a trend that's unspoken among a lot of people that health and wellness has this weird, it's almost like opposite of health and wellness where like people are leaning into harder and harder stuff.
Alexandra: Interesting.
Bill: Yeah. But because they're not going to get fat necessarily, they're going to go to hard liquor as opposed to beer because you can drink a shitload of hard liquor and still look okay on Instagram.
Alexandra: Yeah, you know, it's interesting you say that because we asked them, "What are your priorities when you're picking an alcohol?" One of the options was, drinks that get you drunker faster, that was one of their priorities for kids that were choosing.
Bill: Yeah. I don't know. I talked to some people in California and they were talking about California sober and then I dug a little deeper about what California sober means, and I realized it's not necessarily healthier, if that makes sense.
Alexandra: [laughs] Yeah, it's not.
Bill: That's interesting. Okay. So, we can get off vices. What about streaming services? What did you find out about streaming services?
Alexandra: The most popular TV streaming services were pretty even in terms of just whether or not people had a subscription. But then, when it came down to loyalty they differed. So, the most popular ones were Amazon Prime Video, Disney+, HBO Max, Hulu, and Netflix. Those were all tied basically for how many people use them, and then Apple TV and ESPN had about half of the users that those places do, and YouTube TV and Paramount+ were about a quarter.
Bill: Hm. Yeah, Paramount+, MTV, I have a sick love for MTV.
Alexandra: [laughs]
Bill: Only because of the challenge. Shoutout to Johnny bananas and the rest of the OGs.
Alexandra: [laughs]
Bill: So, where was the most loyalty? Was it Netflix?
Alexandra: It is Netflix. Yes. By far when we asked people, "Okay, if you were going to give something up, if you had to choose--" Through Spotify in there, too. But Spotify, Netflix, Hulu, and Disney+, 60% of them said, they'd give up Disney+, 20% of them said they'd give up Hulu, and then the other 20% was split between Spotify and Netflix.
Bill: Really? You're going to crush some Disney bulls here with that comment.
Alexandra: Yeah, the guy who ran the survey was pretty shocked by it too, actually.
Bill: Why do you think that is? Just like a pining. I know, you don't know, but just curious.
Alexandra: What I've talked to people about that stat, my reasoning behind it would be that there's much more content on Netflix and Hulu than there is on Disney+ when it comes to categories. Disney+ really is movies that are new, the Disney has created old series that you just want to sit back and feel nostalgic about.
Bill: Yeah.
Alexandra: So, it's a special mood that you sort of need to be in to use that platform compared to Netflix and Hulu, and of course Spotify is a different animal in itself.
Bill: When you sit down to watch Netflix, is that a confusing experience to you or do you find that to be native to what you expect?
Alexandra: It is totally native. Everything about it feels intuitive, and I think if you asked any other person in this generation, they would say the same thing.
Bill: That makes me feel old-
Alexandra: [laughs]
Bill: -and thank you for that answer.
Alexandra: [laughs]
Bill: What do you feel like when you look at, call it DirecTV or some sort of legacy cable asset? When you see a channel guide, what do you think? Does that feel native to you also?
Alexandra: It does. But I think the difference there is that people grew up with different kinds of cable, and they were structured slightly differently. So, accessing your favorite channels in cable is different for people depending on what their household was subscribed to when they were younger, whereas Netflix is universally it looks the same everywhere and everyone knows how to use it because it looks the same.
Bill: So, you find discovery to be a Netflix, that is what you expect discovery to be like.
Alexandra: I would say, yeah. The ability to search through different categories that it's displaying for you, and then in addition to that the ability to just search for an individual show that you already know the name of, and are just specifically searching for is easier than scrolling through this long list of just what's currently playing on like a guide [crosstalk].
Bill: So, how do you find shows? Because you've said like to search for a specific show, right? So, part of what my boomer complain about Netflix is, I don't know, when I go there what I'm looking for. So, sometimes I get lost in the process of searching. So, what's your search process look like?
Alexandra: Well, so, you're saying when you go in and you don't know what you want to watch, you have a hard time finding something?
Bill: Yeah. I find myself scrolling forever and then I'm like, "Ah, screw it. I'll go do something else."
Alexandra: [giggles] I think the recommended for you section is usually where I go first-
Bill: Yeah.
Alexandra: -so that customized content that usually hooks me and if it doesn't, then, I'll go to whatever mood I'm in so comedy, or romance, or horror. I'm not a big horror girl, but if I was, I would go there and just start scrolling through. I don't watch Netflix alone. I think it's about 50-50 kids this age who watch it alone and only use it for watching TV with friends. But I only use it when I'm watching TV with friends.
Bill: So, when you say alone, you mean like by yourself?
Alexandra: Yeah, I don't have time for it, honestly. So, the only time I watch it-- [crosstalk]
Bill: Yes, while you are running a business and you are in Vanderbilt-
Alexandra: [laughs]
Bill: -so, you've got other things going on and you have to party.
Alexandra: Yeah, I think that is probably the reason why just busyness. But since I'm only watching it with friends, it's sort of a voting endeavor. So, we all say, that one versus that one within this category.
Bill: That's super interesting. I hope that we can continue to talk in the future because I'd like to know how that evolves as you get older.
Alexandra: [laughs] I'll keep you updated.
Bill: Yeah, please do. Did you find anything interesting on Spotify? Media is super fascinating to me, because there's so much change right now. So, how do people interact with it and brand loyalty and all that?
Alexandra: What we've seen with Spotify so far, we've run quite a few polls on it, is that, it is by far the most popular music streaming service, and it is really not losing ground to anyone else. It is so popular and the kids are so loyal to it. There was one survey that we ran that basically said, "If we reduced the price of Apple Music by 50%, would you switch?" The vast majority of our voters said, "No,"
Bill: Oh, Spotify bull is going crazy right now. They love you. Higher, Alex, there you go. Red Rover.
Alexandra: [laughs]
Bill: That's awesome. That's wild. I don't know. I used to not like Spotify that much. Some of this may be because I hold the stock now, but I honestly believe the experience is much better now. I truly think from a user perspective, I don't know if Apple just like messed up their podcasts and that's what pissed me off or whatever.
Alexandra: [laughs]
Bill: But Spotify has got me.
Alexandra: Yeah, they have a really great way of even recommending relevant content. For my generation, especially, we expect that of tech platforms. We expect for them to know what we like and provide it to us and make the process easy for us, and Spotify does that really well with podcasts, and music, and playlists. They recommend songs. We ask kids, "Okay, what is so great about Spotify?" The vast majority of them said, "They recommend songs to add to their playlists," which Apple still, it's beyond me that they don't do that.
Bill: Interesting. Do you know do people get song recommendations?-- I mean, I know they do this such a dumb question, but I started asking it. So, I'll ask it. Do people care who's popular currently or do you think that the recommendations can create popularity? Does that make sense? This is an opinion. I don't think you could pull on this.
Alexandra: That's a really interesting question. I think that the recommendations, you're assuming that Spotify recommends the same thing to every person and then they all listen to it, then it becomes popular, is that sort of the assumption?
Bill: So, a while ago, Michael Mauboussin wrote a book and he showed that-- or he at least cited a study that said that songs that were above average were popular. I might mess this up. Read, think twice, if you think I did to the listeners. But popular songs are popular no matter what. But an average song in a social setting can be perceived as like way above average. So, I'm interested in the extent that you think that Spotify can maybe create hits out of non-hits, if that makes any sense.
Alexandra: Yeah, I think it probably could because a lot of the music that I now listen to on a regular basis has come from those recommended playlists. That is partially because it knows what style of music I like, but if it's a just a pop song, and it's recommending that pop song that regular to every kid that likes pop which is most of them, then it ends up on all of their liked pages, and they just shuffle their liked music every day when they're listening to music, then it becomes something that they all know, and then they play it at parties, and then it becomes popular. So, yeah, I could see that happening.
Bill: Did anybody ask the percentage of people that just recycled playlists versus those that are looking to Spotify recommended playlists for new songs?
Alexandra: We didn't ask it in that exact way. But we should look into that.
Bill: Yeah, we might have to do a survey. All right, Spotify bulls reach out to me, we're going to coordinate something with Alex, and we're going to answer these questions or bears. I don't care. It doesn't have to be anybody. We just need to have some answers. Very cool. What else have you done that's super interesting? I could go on and on about this, but I think we would beat a dead horse.
Alexandra: [laughs]
Bill: What do you like about being on the inside of the hedge fund question asking? What's the most fascinating thing about that?
Alexandra: It's really interesting, because I ended up in this position because I was interested in the stock markets. So, it's a really cool thing to have all these very thoughtful people who spend their entire day researching these companies, asking questions about them that are really getting to the core of whether or not that company is going to be successful.
Bill: Yeah.
Alexandra: So, that's what's interesting for me about it. One thing that we did recently was ask about just podcasts in general and seeing if people listen to podcasts, and watching as people's interest in usage of podcasts has increased. Most recently we found that like 70% of kids listen to podcasts, whereas before I think it was like 50. So, it really is on the rise. But getting to watch those trends that have a real impact on companies is really cool. Because when guys ask questions like you do, it sparks an idea for us to continue to ask a similar question or that same question over time, and then we can build this timeline of a trend and show how the answer to that question has changed over the past year. That's something we've done with social media, which I've found super interesting. We found it pretty consistently, the ranking order goes Instagram, Snapchat, Tiktok, Twitter, and then Facebook, which literally, no one uses.
TikTok actually had an increase in their share of usership and so did Instagram. Over the past year, they went from 15% of kids saying that it was their favorite to 21%, and Instagram went from 36% to 46%.
Bill: Wow.
Alexandra: Yeah, pretty crazy. They stole that from Snapchat and Twitter, which went from 36% to 26% for Snapchat, and 10% to 4% for Twitter.
Bill: Huh? What do you think Instagram is doing so well? That's very interesting to hear because we are literally on the back of a Wall Street Journal article talking about how Instagram is terrible for teenagers and whatnot. So, it kind of interesting to hear you cite that data.
Alexandra: Yeah. Instagram has done a really good job of I think diversifying the type of content they provide. They copy TikTok with reels and we've seen the use of reels go up in the past few months among our voters. But they also have done a really great job of integrating advertisements into their scroll. Even though people might say that they don't like advertisements, a lot of my generation actually does like these advertisements and has said that they would prefer to have ones that are customized to them and get ads for things that they actually want. So, it's almost like Instagram is helping them shop while they're on social media. It's a win-win.
Bill: That's interesting. Do you think that your generation also circling back to the Netflix idea with expects recommendations? Do you think your generation on average is more comfortable with the quid pro quo of you're going to know more about me, but in exchange, I expect better recommendations or better advertising? Do you think that you all are more comfortable with for lack of a better term, a lack of privacy?
Alexandra: We are, we've run surveys on it. And this generation is much more comfortable with a lack of privacy than say, Millennials or our parents' generation. It's just a very different acceptance and understanding that in order to get what we want out of the media platforms we use, which is these personalized recommendations we have to give up some privacy. We're kind of okay with that because we've been giving it up since we were really young and so we're used to it.
Bill: That's interesting. It makes sense, but it's also a little bit surprising to me in a way. So, if Instagram is growing, is Snapchat falling off, is Twitter falling off, what is going on with the usage? Is it just that Instagram is growing exponentially or out of proportion?-- Are they taking share or are they just growing share? It's kind of the question.
Alexandra: If you're assuming that kids are spending the same amount of time on social media every day as they right now as they did a year ago, then it is stealing it from Snapchat and Twitter. But we ran a poll three weeks before Snap's earnings that were crazy back in July that said that 97% of our users use Snapchat. So, it's not that they're not using it. It just might mean that they're using it a little bit less or that they're just using social media more in general.
Bill: Do you have a gut reaction on which that is? It seems to me probably using it more as the answer but I'm not sure.
Alexandra: I think it's just that they're using it more in general. If they are using Snapchat less, it's a very small amount less. They're still using it. Most of our users on a daily basis, just checking in on people's stories, and oftentimes they don't realize how much they use it. We've run a few surveys and are continuing to do these on a regular basis now, which I'm really excited about that are basically ask kids to submit screenshots of their app usage page, and keeping track of which categories of apps and which apps are at the top of everyone's lists, and trying to develop a thesis around why that might be and asking our voters about the apps that they're using the most often, and seeing why they use them, and also keeping track of that question you've just asked, whether or not the social media use is just growing in general or if the increase in one app usage results in a decrease of another.
Bill: Yeah, that'll be interesting to see over time for sure. It's amazing to me that Instagram continues to grow given how ubiquitous it is. At the same time, it feels like every time I'm on a plane or whatever, the person next to me is just scrolling through Instagram.
Alexandra: Yeah. It's such a minor [crosstalk]
Bill: Sometimes you can find Twitter addicts, but very minority of the population.
Alexandra: Yeah, I think it's interesting. When you talk to adults, they assume that Twitter is much more popular among kids than it is because I think Twitter's demographic is much more millennial and just adults, then it is Gen Z. Gen Z kids honestly find the platform a little bit confusing compared to Instagram, and Snapchat, and TikTok. So, they definitely use it a lot less.
Bill: Twitter is confusing to my generation as well. It's just if you can get past the confusion, it becomes addictive, at least to some of us.
Alexandra: Yeah. I was talking to, I think it was maybe Trey or Josh about this idea that you are sharing thoughts on Twitter and on Instagram, you're sharing images, and so it is conducive to a more thought centered community. People who are trying to have discussions rather than show off their lives and photos of their lives. So, that's why probably you get the younger demo for Instagram who's trying to show off all the cool things they're doing and the pretty clothes they're wearing, and more academic, intellectual communities, or political arguments on Twitter.
Bill: Yeah, I actively try not to show my life on Twitter.
Alexandra: Interesting.
Bill: And I locked my Instagram account because I don't want people that I interact with on Twitter to see my personal life.
Alexandra: Really?
Bill: Yeah.
Alexandra: Why?
Bill: Because I don't mind sharing things that I don't mind sharing on Twitter, if that makes any sense like I don't mind sharing thoughts. I have a personal boundary at sharing how I live and what my kids are like, and the stuff that I want to keep private.
Alexandra: Interesting.
Bill: I think the answer is when I go to Twitter, I'm trying honestly to figure out if I'm thinking correctly, and I'm trying to have, if not a debate, a social conversation around the way that my brain works and how I see the world, and Instagram feels more braggy to me and I really don't like that.
Alexandra: Yeah. There was a trend for a little while on social media towards make Instagram casual again. It's evolving into that a little bit more I think as people began to use it more. It started off as just a method for people to show off their best self. I think TikTok has helped other platforms evolve into a place where maybe you're not showing your best self, you're showing a little bit more of yourself than just your best self. TikTok is generally regarded as a more honest social media platform, where people are sharing a little bit more about their private lives and how it really is instead of just trying to make it look rosy, whereas Instagram is much more of a cultivated, like crafted image.
Bill: Do you feel like you have to cultivate your Instagram image?
Alexandra: Absolutely.
Bill: That's insane to me.
Alexandra: [laughs] I think you'll find if you talk to a lot of people in this generation that a lot of how we find friends and determine if people are worthy of being our friend is looking them up on Instagram and making sure that they're normal by way of what they have published on social media.
Bill: Yeah, but then, if that is truly the case and everybody is trying to create a filtered image of what they are, then the definition of normal becomes what's filtered. You know what I mean?
Alexandra: Yes, exactly. It's all become filtered. But then it becomes a measurement of how well people are able to filter and how well they're able to create this image of themselves. A lot of time, people in our generation can see through when someone is presenting themselves differently than they are.
Bill: Yeah. You can smell out the bullshit a little bit better.
Alexandra: A little bit, yeah. We're spending between one and four hours on this platform a day.
Bill: Huh? So how much TV watching do y'all do and I'm going to lump Netflix in that? But if you're spending that long on Instagram, that's how long the older generation spent watching TV, right?
Alexandra: Yeah. Live TV gets barely any time, barely any. But Netflix, I believe it was, most people, they ranked their hours on a weekly basis. I want to say it was like four hours a week was like the average, five hours a week, but then there's always the kids that are watching it two hours a day.
Bill: Yeah, that makes sense.
Alexandra: Also, it seems dependent on whether or not people were binging a series. So, if they were binging then they were watching six hours a day, and if they weren't, then they weren't.
Bill: Because you can't stop binging.
Alexandra: [giggles] Yeah.
Bill: That's the definition of binging.
Alexandra: And did you notice that Netflix decreased the amount of time between episodes?
Bill: Yeah.
Alexandra: It used to be before it auto plays. Yeah, that makes a huge difference.
Bill: Spotify does it now on the pod, too.
Alexandra: Interesting.
Bill: I listened to the intro a lot. I'm kind of obsessed with how this whole thing flows. It's a little bit of my art project.
Alexandra: [laughs]
Bill: I used to notice that when the outro would stop the next episode, first, it wouldn't even auto play. Now, it just plays immediately.
Alexandra: Huh? That I have not-- [crosstalk]
Bill: Obviously, people have should be listening to more me.
[laughter]
Bill: I don't know that.
Alexandra: Who wouldn't want to listen to more of you, Bill?
Bill: Right. Well, it's the guests. I got to circle back to this. It's surprising to me that you feel the need to, I guess, cultivate an Instagram image because from my perspective, you're like a very attractive young lady, you've got all this stuff going on, you're an entrepreneur, you've had this great internship, do you feel a sense of insecurity in Instagram that you have to cultivate or is it just kind of what it is?
Alexandra: It started off as an expectation that everyone has one and you only post the best photos that you have of yourself on it, but it has turned into a little bit more of an ego boost I think for people. I find that after weekends when I've taken a lot of great pictures or when other people have taken a lot of big pictures, there will be just massive amount of it. My feed is just chock full of people who've posted because they're trying to show off these best moments in their lives. But I do think it does stem from insecurity and people trying to fill a little bit of a hole.
A lot of times people, influencers, who are Instagram influencers often don't have a lot of friends in real life. There are a few that go to school here and they aren't in sororities or fraternities, and you don't see them in huge groups of people. I think that a lot of times those people created their Instagram presence is a replacement for having a huge group of friends.
Bill: Hmm, that is interesting and it makes sense. Twitter does that somewhat I think in a similar way, but I do think it's a little different.
Alexandra: It is different because people aren't looking at you, I think on Twitter. So, especially, for females, there's a huge focus around body image and are people-- just seeing the likes roll in on a photo, you get a adrenaline rush from people hearting your face or your body. They're saying, "I like the way that you appear." So, I think, females really get satisfaction from that.
Bill: Yeah, hm, don't let it fuck you up. That's my recommendation.
Alexandra: Thank you.
Bill: What did you think when you were reading the Wall Street Journal stuff?
Alexandra: About the Instagram being bad for you?
Bill: Yeah, like, how it can negative impacts or whatever. I don't know if it being bad for you is fair.
Alexandra: We've been talking about that. And we talked about it even in my English classes in high school of, "Okay, what effect does this really have on us?" So, our generation, because we were the users that used it most I think have always been and we were in this really crucial stage of development, when we were using it have always been in conversation about, "Okay, what is this really doing to us? So, this isn't a new topic of conversation that for people my age. I think we understand that it is probably somewhat detrimental to our mental health. But people are willing to give it up because it's addictive, and it's become so ingrained in the way that real life works that without it you feel lost.
Bill: What do you mean the way that real life works?
Alexandra: I guess, an example of that would be, you're a freshman in college and you are trying to figure out who your roommate is going to be, you get to pick. You go through the Facebook group and this is one of the only times you will ever use Facebook by the way.
Bill: [laughs]
Alexandra: You will go through the Vanderbilt Freshmen Facebook group and you will scroll through profile pictures until you find someone that looks like you. Then you will look at that person's name, and then you will look them up on Instagram, and you will see if they're private or public, and if they're public, you'll probably move on and if they're private, you'll see if you have any friends in common. Then, you will go through the friends that they have in common and we talked about.
Bill: Wait, wait, wait. Public, you'll move on, what do you mean? Like they're not cool enough because they're not private?
Alexandra: There's a distinction I think between people who are public and people who are private on Instagram because people were private or sending the message that they have a close social circle, and therefore their social circle is more desirable, maybe to be a part of.
Alexandra: Smart.
Alexandra: Yeah, little supply and demand. But I think that that is just one way that it can play out and life is, that's how you find your first friend. Then, once you're on campus, you start requesting to follow all these people that you see around you and building this network of, "Oh, wait, I saw her on Instagram. Maybe you know what? I remember she went to the same school as my friend from camp. I'm going to say hi to her in my Econ class." It's little pieces of information that you glean from just someone's bio that can help form a connection.
Bill: Have you done much thinking about the metaverse?
Alexandra: No, I really haven't.
Bill: You should start thinking about the metaverse. It's the hot new thing that everyone's talking about. But I do fundamentally I think where some truth in all of this is, the melding of online life and offline life and how they're coming together. It's a very interesting concept and I don't think that we're going to get any-- I think that the pandemic, at least from my generation, your generation probably has already been going through this, but has really collapsed whatever difference there was between online and offline. A lot of us were sort of thrown on to online a lot. I don't think this trend is going away. I think it's only going to get deeper and deeper.
Alexandra: I think you're totally right. Having kids that grow up with it I think is where it all begins is that they've grown up in this world where it is combined, and then they just see online and offline is one and the same. And that's what's starting to happen. I mean kids that are being born now, their perception of the world is that there're things that happen in both realms and they're both equally relevant.
Bill: What did growing up with the internet? What do you think it did? I guess, I have two questions that are ringing out. Not protected from much when the internet is all around, you can find anything. So, when you're 14 years old and there's no barrier to what you can find, what do you think that does to your mind or how do you treat that? What was that like?
Alexandra: It's Interesting.
Bill: I had the internet, too, but it was different. It wasn't always at your fingertips and you can find anything all the time.
Alexandra: Yeah, I think there's a filter on what you use things for based on who you're surrounded by. So, if you are in a gamer community, you're probably going to use the internet to watch YouTube videos of people playing video games. If you're interested in the environment, then you're probably going to use it to look up things about the environment. People I think got ideas from what I remember from other people about what to use the internet for because we didn't realize that it was so unique I think. When my parents talk about our ability to look up anything we need for a research paper within a few minutes, it's baffling to me that they weren't able to do that. So, I guess we didn't realize how much power we had at our fingertips. So, I don't know that we were always so focused on finding ways to utilize it. It was just if we needed something, we would use it for that.
Of course, you do spend some time exploring or you end up in the YouTube rabbit hole of watching a certain type of video or TED Talk. But I don't know that we necessarily saw it is this big open field of all the information you could possibly know in the world because we didn't know that it was special in that way.
Bill: That's interesting. I'm terrified of what my kids will see on the internet. I think it's just part of the wanting to protect them, but also knowing that I can't anymore. So, I go downstairs the other day or upstairs. I'm in a split level, but people don't need that detail, but whatever you got.
Alexandra: [laughs]
Bill: The kids are playing Roblox and I hear gun caulk. They're young kids and I had to chew them out or whatever. But the idea that that's they can find that and it's like they're so young and they're still these little beings that I look at-
Alexandra: Yeah, they're moldable. [crosstalk]
Bill: -and how could they possibly-- Yeah. How could they even be introduced to that? And then, in the same breath, maybe two days ago, they had some lockdown drill at school, in case a shooter comes, and it feels to me and it may not be fair, but that a lot of innocence has been taken out of life.
Alexandra: It's an interesting point, and I think that in a lot of ways it has, one of my friends, younger siblings started using TikTok at a really young age, and she got one of the problems with TikTok that people have identified is that, once you get on a certain type of page, it's hard to get off of it. So, if you're depressed, you're going to end up watching a lot of videos of other people who are depressed. Then you are watching videos of people who are saying they're suicidal and trying to take their lives or telling stories about how they tried to take their lives, and that's where this little girl ended up. She ended up, she was I think 10 when this happened. She started cutting herself.
Bill: Oh, no.
Alexandra: Yeah. And that's the kind of thing that you would never know about as a normal 10-year-old unless you ended up on this weird side of the internet that is just feeding you information like that.
Bill: Oh, that's so sad.
Alexandra: I know.
Bill: It makes me want to give her a little hug.
Alexandra: I know.
Bill: Tell her, she's worth it.
Alexandra: I know.
Bill: Ah, I don't know. Well, let's try to turn this away and uplifting.
Alexandra: [laughs]
Bill: But I've enjoyed this conversation very much. Thank you for having it with me.
Alexandra: This has been great. Thanks for having me.
Bill: Yeah, well, we'll continue. I just said these are very real issues and I think that they're just not something that I had to deal with quite as much because I remember sitting in chapel at my school when we were in eighth grade or something, and they were talking about the internet and what it was going to be. People were still on dial up, and I don't know, I used to be on the internet and my dad's, the phone would blink, the line was busy if I was on the internet. So, my dad would know when I was on it.
Alexandra: [laughs]
Bill: I don't know. Sometimes, I'd try to download naked pictures, something and he'd be like, he'll run into my room and catch me.
Alexandra: Oh, God.
Bill: It's a different world now.
Alexandra: It's different now. It's different.
Bill: Yeah. Now, everything's at your fingertips. So, it'll be interesting to watch my children and it's interesting to talk to you about. So, thank you for doing it. Can you talk a little bit about what your experience at Greenbrier was like, and your introduction, or what you think about the investment community now, and I don't know where you want to take your life?
Alexandra: Yeah.
Bill: Trey speaks very highly of you.
Alexandra: Oh, well, thank you. He has been an amazing mentor and I seriously cannot thank him enough for everything he's done to help me find my way and help with Red Rover. I mean just incredibly supportive mentor. Boy, was I lucky to have ended up agreeing where I did not realize how lucky I was until that first summer was probably about halfway through? But it was just such a privilege to have that exposure to this broader thinking when it comes to analyzing companies.
I was probably before this very caught up in this Robinhoodish mindset of caught up trading on a new product release or headlines that day instead of searching for longer term value based on how the organization operates and how their customers really feel about their products and services. That's what's so neat about Greenbrier, that it really connected with their ethos of trying to find companies that do things for the customer instead of to the customer. They have the saying of better, faster, cheaper and to the delight of the customer and I loved that. So, that was a really, really neat way to think about the success of a company rather than the shorter-term headlines.
Bill: You know, I've been thinking about this a lot, because I'm in the middle of, well, I did take a big loss on Altice, but I still watch it and whatever. But that particular entity is a cable company and I think it's hard to argue that they do better, cheaper, faster. Then, I was talking about the Wall Street Journal with a friend. I hadn't looked at my bill in a while, and here they're billing me 40 bucks a month, and I call them up and I was like, "Look, I'm not paying this." They dropped it to $19.95 or whatever.
Alexandra: What?
Bill: [crosstalk] meaningful savings per year.
Alexandra: Wow.
Bill: Right?
Alexandra: Yeah.
Bill: But that's not doing something for the customer. That's screwing the people that don't call you.
Alexandra: Yeah.
Bill: That's like, "Okay, so, my best customers that don't turn and don't bother me are going to get screwed."
Alexandra: Totally.
Bill: And that's the business model. When they call to cancel, then we'll let them pay what we can actually charge.
Alexandra: Oh, gosh. Bizarre.
Bill: Builds resentment. It builds a lot of customer resentment.
Alexandra: It totally does. I mean that's one of the things that I think being a Greenbrier has helped prevent in Red Rover is this value orientation of making sure that we are providing customers with value and not screwing anyone and that's how I'm wired. So, that's why I really connected with it is, I just can't understand how someone can sit at their desk and know that they are doing a customer wrong and think that in the long term, it's going to work out. Because when people realize that you're doing that to them, they won't want to be part of your ecosystem anymore. But it also just pains me to think that companies are doing that to people. I hate it.
Bill: It's also I think hard to build an organization that's excited to go to work. As it seasons, if that's the business plan, if everybody knows that they're doing something good for the customer, here, you did a survey for me, I'm really excited to have you on the program, I know three people that have highly recommended you, we all want to help you. Trey has said, "There's a good chance Alex is going to be employing all of us in the future."
Alexandra: [laughs]
Bill: So, it'd be nice to her. It engenders goodwill, whereas the how much can I make today? I don't know. There's an off-balance sheet liability that accompanies that, and I think that there are investments that can work if you're betting on inertia against it, but I'm going to try to pivot myself a little bit more to their philosophy, because I think it's a little more anti-fragile.
Alexandra: I completely agree. The culture and ethos of an organization's employees that you sort of touched on, I think is so important. One of the things that I've really loved about being able to run Red Rover while I'm in school is that, I'm taking some really cool classes that I'm able to just apply in real time to the things that I do with Red Rover. I'm taking this organizational management class right now, we're talking a lot about organizational theory, and how these different ways of thinking about managing a company impact the output.
One of the things we're studying right now is this idea that if you get too structured, and too bureaucratic, and too rational with an organization, then you lose a lot when it comes to what you're able to produce because it becomes too homogenous and not free enough, and that the personhood of the people working there really matters. So, the literature backs up what you're saying.
Bill: Hm. I have to think. The thing that's raining out my head is what gift and I don't mean a gift because you've worked hard to create it, but to be able to go through college and have a business and be able to apply the classes that you're learning in the business, I bet you're learning 2x what other people are, right? Because it's not just a book you're able to implement it.
Alexandra: No, I truly agree with that and I joke that everybody should try and do this while they're in school, because I'm learning so much more right now than I would be if I wasn't able to apply these concepts that I'm learning because a lot of the time, my major feeds into consulting jobs. So, you don't really get to utilize the knowledge that you have learned until a few years after graduation. So, it's a real privilege to be able to take the things that I'm learning and implement them in real time and see how they play out in my business because not only does it benefit the business, but it allows me to really let that knowledge sink in.
Bill: Yeah. I have a feeling your inner view answers are going to be a little better than most people.
Alexandra: [laughs]
Bill: I'm just saying.
Alexandra: I sure hope so.
Bill: I think they will. I mean that's what experience does. You can't help but not. It's clear that you're passionate about this stuff, it's clear that you're thoughtful, it's very, very cool to speak to you. I was slinging liquor when I was your age and it was a lot of fun. I made a lot of money, but I don't know that my takeaways are quite as good as yours.
Alexandra: Well, you probably were enjoying life to the fullest and that is-- [crosstalk]
Bill: Yes. I got a lot of current benefit.
Alexandra: [giggles] That's worth something. That is totally it.
Bill: Yeah.
Alexandra: You have a little balance.
Bill: I'd rather have done that than nothing. Don't get me wrong. But I learned something about turnover, I learned something about theft in cash businesses, I learned the dangers of over pouring in inventory management. I learned stuff like that, but far from a consulting gig and/or building what I think could become a very, very cool business for you over the long term, and I like how you're approaching it. I think collecting this data over time is going to be really valuable.
Alexandra: Thank you. I do too. I really do see that as the future of this is just being a way of connecting these kids who are experts in this stuff to people who maybe didn't even realize that they needed that insight. This is really valuable information that can I think help people make better investment decisions, and I'm hoping that the buildup of that information over time will help provide a lot of clarity on a lot of really hot topics right now like tech companies and consumer brands.
Bill: Yeah. Do you have employees that you have hired or what is this?
Alexandra: Yeah.
Bill: It's just you and a bunch of subcontractors, so, you bring in people on, what's going on?
Alexandra: So, right now, it's a lot of subcontractors. I have two kids working for me. One that is still in college, one that just graduated, and then they're doing administrative and data work, and then my coder, I outsource his work. He still attends Stanford. He is my age and he's awesome. Then our website builder is outsourced through Upwork. But those are the current, I guess, employees, if you will. But we're looking into a new referral program to expand our voter base. So, I guess you could say that we'd be bringing those people on board as well if we had reps that a lot of the schools were looking at.
Bill: That's cool. Do you need anything from anyone that may be listening to this? Is there something that you're struggling with that you could ask for help? Because I do have a fairly sophisticated audience.
Alexandra: [giggles] Well, thank you. Yes, having people ask questions to build up our base is hugely valuable. But we are also looking into just more ambitious projects, how to go deeper into financial services, but also outside of that ecosystem, and we're looking for potentially the right strategic partner to take us there. So, we're considering a round a funding. But the primary thing really is having people subscribe to this database or contribute to it in some way by commissioning some custom polls that we can add to our base.
Bill: Where can people subscribe and participate?
Alexandra: So, our website is redrovernetwork.com, and you can apply for database membership there, you can order custom polls there, you can contact me there. But all three of those are available through the website, and it's literally in this top banner, and it says, "Order polls, apply for membership, contact us."
Bill: Awesome. Well, I am going to drive a couple of subscribers to you because I think a couple of my friends can use your service.
Alexandra: Thank you.
Bill: And I have greatly enjoyed this conversation. I'm going to let you get on with your day. But I really appreciate it and I hope if you're willing to do it, I'd like to have you back on to give some insights into what you're seeing with the polls.
Alexandra: I would love to do that.
Bill: I wouldn't mind if you are a returning guest in the future if you're willing to do it.
Alexandra: Well, thank you. Yes, I think there's lots of interesting things to be learned from these recurring polls and I would love to share them.
Bill: All right, well, cool. Well, again, I thank you for coming on. It was a really fun conversation and I hope you have a great weekend.
Alexandra: Thank you. Thanks Bill.